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barkingburro
Senior Member
barkingburro
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 184
Location: Irvine, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Vac Pot: Trifecta MB, CafeSolo,...
Posted Wed Sep 4, 2013, 11:10am
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

Michael,

Despite the apparent resistance you're getting here and on another thread, I'm intrigued by your experience of the iCoffee. The problem with quick reviews is that they are simply that: a quick alert re: some product that bears further attention.  In order to get a more definitive sense of how a product performs, one needs to qualify the coffee and grind used, and compare the same over several leading products that compete with each other.  It's difficult to find any one person who is willing to buy, for example, a Technivorm, a trifecta, and an iCoffee and thus be in a position to provide such awesome comparative data.

hint hint

So I was wondering if you might entertain a little further experimentation for the benefit of those of us who appreciate and share your determination to identify the best products out there.  If so, please don't sell any of those three brewers just yet!

Let me know and we can talk beans and methodology -- nothing too taxing, of course.

Regards,

 
- Michael
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abacus01
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 10
Location: northport
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 9:06am
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

barkingburro,

I fully understand..and Im new to this forum..but would love to help out those...okay..so here goes...I have the technivorm, I have a hario syphon 2 cupper. I had the trifecta bunn md and now the icoffee machine by remington. I always use two full scoops of coffee approx 23 grams of beans. I use a precise virtuoso grinder set to 20 for a fine grind. I have used a coffee called sulawesi AA tana to raja. Im not sure of the country of origin.I've also used, brazil and mexican on all four machines. again the same two scoops fine grind. On the trifecta bunn, I had it set to a, b and c programs 40 seconds. The A program gives a brighter cup...and less muddiness in the final product. The B and C, agitate it more i think 3 or four times before pressing it out. The trifecta, has more nuances of flavor also a muddier looking cup...but i find its stronger..and tends at times to have an aftertaste I can taste. The technivorm is very consistent. I keep the shoot closed until the water fills up over the grounds..i stir it about 5 times..then open the chute sometimes at the half mark until the water is close to finishing..at that time..i stir it again for about 4 times...to finish. The icoffee uses a gold permanent fine mesh filter. When the icoffee first starts up...a music starts playing..a strong white light at the front goes on..so that you can watch the whole process of the brewing. then the coffee grinds get initially steamed...then 3 jets inside the filter..start spraying the grounds and the pressure moves it around and around...as it fills up you can see the creama forming on the top of the brew thru the window where the light is on, the fresher the coffee beans your using ..the more creama will form...its very cool in my opinion...this continues until it completely fills up and the coffee at the same time is pouring out form the basket into your glass carafe. This machine can be programmed to start at a certain time which i like. when this cycle is completed the music goes on one more time and the hot plate on the bottom stays on to keep the coffee hot.  after brewing this..the coffee reminded very much of the brew you get from the bonavito machine my wife has in our apartment..but i'd say a little bit smoother. I had a barista try it as well as a friend..and they all loved the flavor...a few had it black without any milk and said it was very smooth tasting. When i go to empty out the basket that has the spent grinds i notice that all the grinds have been fully saturated. Now this machine as marketed is claiming that you can get the same cup of coffee using 15 per cent less grinds because of the way it brews. I still like using the full two scoops because i like a fuller taste and dont want it any weaker.  This machine seems well built, not as well built as the bunn trifecta. The reason i bought the trifecta is because my barista made me a cup from the commercial version of the machine, which allows for hundreds of more adjustments to the brew and the coffee from that was amazing..so i went and bought the home version..which doesnt allow you to experiment as much. Again..for getting the most flavor or nuance out of the coffee i'd have to say the trifecta was more capable..it agitates and then treats the final product as if its a french press/aeropress kind of action.  But as far as smoothness and taste..i prefer now my icoffee machine. Im curious if anyone else goes out and gets this machine what they think...I hope that answers any questions you guys have about the comparisons of the machines..and like i said..they are slowly rolling this machine out to many big box stores..bed and bath doesnt have it yet...but Bloomingdales has it..now at 225. Bed and bath will shortly stock it..but Bloomingdales has an unlimited return policy on any products as long as you keep the receipt..so you cant go wrong. Happy coffee making to all...i'd love to hear feedback or field any other questions you have....Michael
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jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 694
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 9:41am
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

abacus01 Said:

Bloomingdales has an unlimited return policy on any products as long as you keep the receipt..so you cant go wrong.

Posted September 5, 2013 link

From Bloomingdale's Customer Service web page:

Can I return merchandise that has been worn, used or altered?

No. We will not accept a return of merchandise that has been:

   * Worn.
   * Washed.
   * Damaged.
   * Used.
   * Altered.
   * Returned without attached Bloomingdale’s b-tags, designer tags and/or any accompanying materials that were originally included.
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barkingburro
Senior Member
barkingburro
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 184
Location: Irvine, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Vac Pot: Trifecta MB, CafeSolo,...
Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 10:56am
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

Michael (abacus01),

Thanks for the detailed reply.
  1. Let's start with just one type of coffee.  I tend to favor South and Central American coffees, particularly certain ones from Brazil.  Can you please tell me how many days since roast, how many minutes since grinding, how you are storing your beans, and the overall flavor characteristics you perceive in the Brazil beans you're using?
    Before proceeding, if you are using beans older then 2 weeks or ground more than 15 minutes before brewing, or not stored at room temperature in an air tight container, we have to abort and get you setup correctly.  Sorry if this all seems old hat to you and I don't mean to be talking down to you, but when you said you like the timer startup, you raised a red flag.  Also, I think the foam you see floating on top in the iCoffee brew chamber is likely not actual crema but outgassing of CO2, although it could well be partly due to crema, since hot steam is used.
  2. After that, can you try using the trifecta scale to get more consistent weights?  No more than .1 to .2 grams difference, please.
  3. Next, can you detect a difference between 40 and 50 secs. on the trifecta?
  4. And last (for now), can you please try 17 and 23 on your grinder?

This is all on the trifecta.  I just want to make sure you're using fresh grounds, and have dialed-in the trifecta.

Apologies if this is more than you anticipated!

 
- Michael
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abacus01
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 10
Location: northport
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 1:19pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

barkingburro,

 ok, to answer the first guys response..bloomingdales takes back anything..obviously i would clean it....dry it completely return it and say im not satisfied..i dont know what your reading or where..whether its posted on their website..i was assured ..i could return the machine any time..no questions asked...that is their policy....of course im not stupid and wouldnt return it with coffee grinds in it..coffee in pot ect....
ok now the second part....
My coffee is older than the 14 days or whatever you mention...Im not as big a conniseur as you are...so scientifically ,,,as i apprecciate the level you seek....im just not that concerned..i grind it..i then use it..maybe a minute passes before i put it in the machine..i cant do any more experiments with the trifecta as I sold it..once i tasted this coffee the icoffee made..maybe your right its not creme its gas..but the manufacturers claim its creme...who knows...I was only trying to post here...what i perceived to be an excellent cup of coffee..i guess if your happy with your machine..being a trifecta...or technivorm..or whatever methodoligy your using..keep using it...if your curious about another machine..that i think makes great coffee try it...I dont know what else to say..im not trying to blow off this conversation...but i dont have the patience to experiment to the level your looking for....its not that important..and the flavor of my coffee is smooth and delicious...the nuances that trifecta mentions are there to sell machines..period...in my opinion..i guess thats why i dumped the machine..and im glad i did..as i dont think its worth 550.00 in my opinion....so good luck to all in whatever you do...im done with this conversation..and im not trying to convince anyone ...i know what i've tasted...thx..all.
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,851
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 1:39pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

abacus01 Said:

coffeeroasters club,,,

Yes I own a technivorm for about 3 years now..i recently got the bona vita machines for wife in apt in the city...and I currently have the bunn trifecta machine...The technivorm and bona make excellent coffee also. The problem with the technivorm is unless you stand there and swirl the water over the beans as its coming out..i find at times all the grounds dont get equally saturated..as far as the taste is concerned..beliieve it or not..the coffee brewed from this machine..is high end restaurant quality and is smoother in my opinion than the technivorm. remember this is only an opinion..i dont work for them, i have no affiliation with icoffee...I've made coffee for some friends and they all agree....and this machine cost me almost 1 /3 of what the technivorm costs..now dont get me wrong i have no plans on getting rid of it..but this spins the grounds around and around..so all flavor is extracted..with no bitterness..and very smooth. hope that answers your question.

Posted September 2, 2013 link

"Restaurant quality" coffee?
Ugh. In that case, I'll pass.
I also highly doubt you have all the machines you claim to own, or you'd KNOW how bad restaurant coffee is.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,851
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 1:45pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

Too bad I can no longer check IP addresses. :>(

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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abacus01
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 10
Location: northport
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 4:06pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

IAMWriter,
What's your problem dude...you just looking to start a fight with me on this forum...give me a break..what wrong with restaurant quality coffee..
and yes I did own all these machines minus the trifecta now..you want pics to prove it..and my ip address...are you serious...i dont care if your a senior member...
I cant use the word i'd describe your arrogance here...hope the owners of this site are watching this thread..your way out of line....
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 4:49pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

abacus01 Said:

IAMWriter,
What's your problem dude...you just looking to start a fight with me on this forum...give me a break..what wrong with restaurant quality coffee..
and yes I did own all these machines minus the trifecta now..you want pics to prove it..and my ip address...are you serious...i dont care if your a senior member...
I cant use the word i'd describe your arrogance here...hope the owners of this site are watching this thread..your way out of line....

Posted September 5, 2013 link

Not to get in this argument or fight, but pry meant how horrible restaurant quality coffee is. I mean that's a given, even high end restaurants have beans that are so old and stale and sit in grinders (beans are usually sent in bulk as part of a servicing contract with the machine or separately), or the brew in pots left on for long time and not thrown out or started with fresh periodically etc. But that's pry b/c the general population could care less and coffee to them is Folgers lol and to the owners/mngrs/workers same thing. I've seen restaurants with bars that had espresso setups and even a top notch grinder like a Super Jolley etc, few times, only to find out how long the beans have sat in that grinder or how old the bags were. Once place told me they were roasted like 4 months earlier lol, no wonder the espresso was so bad.
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jpender
Senior Member
jpender
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Posts: 694
Location: California
Expertise: I like coffee

Grinder: OE LIDO
Vac Pot: S/S Moka Pot
Drip: Aeropress
Posted Thu Sep 5, 2013, 5:21pm
Subject: Re: New kind of machine!
 

It depends on the restaurant, of course. The coffee I'm drinking right now I discovered by asking what they were serving me at a restaurant.
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