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Seeking MicroRoaster Mail Order Recommendations

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Discussions > Coffee > Q and A > Seeking...

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Mark_G
Senior Member

Joined: 9 Jan 2006
Posts: 13
Location: NJ
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Apr 17, 2006, 4:45am Subject: Seeking MicroRoaster Mail Order Recommendations

We're pretty serious about achieving a perfect cup of drip coffee -- now use a new Ditting grinder and an Aquabrew commercial pourover (brews consistently at 200-205º) into gold mesh flat bottom filter to 65oz Zojirushi thermal carafe. We are equally fastidious with the brewing details: weigh betwn 2.7-3.2 oz coffee prior to grind, 67 oz fresh cold (municipal, moderately hard) tapwater, often preheat carafe. I hope we have achieved control of those variables. Present goal is to achieve a smooth, moderately mild brew -- we drink a lot of coffee all morning (adulterated with a small amount of 2% milk, no sugar). We are not coffee snobs, in that we don't delve into the finest nuances of taste -- what we seek is a great tasting, drinkable cup of coffe that doesn't overpower our tastebuds for the rest of the day. We have been making the rounds of the microroasters -- most have been responsive and informative; yet we find that at the end of the morning, their roasts are just too dark for our preference. So far Terroir and Intelligentsia seem to get closest with lighter offerings; Counter Culture and Stump Town darker. Call us hypersensitive: we'll save full city roasts and oily beans for espresso. Suggestions of mail order roasters who like to roast light (±"Cinnamon Roast") would be appreciated. We are cupping blends (reg and decaf) and select single varietals. We're on the east coast if that matters. Thanks for feedback! Mark

PeterG
Senior Member

Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 73
Location: Durham, North Carolina
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Faema E61
Grinder: Various
Drip: Fetco Extractor
Roaster: San Franciscan 1lb.

Posted Mon Apr 17, 2006, 3:14pm Subject: Re: Seeking MicroRoaster Mail Order Recommendations

Hey Mark! Thank you for taking your brewing so seriously and also for advocating light roasts! Historically, the really top-tier specialty roasters have had to endure folks claiming their roasts were too light! I think you might have a tough time finding high-quality roasters who will consistently go much lighter than Terroir. Many of those who deliver cinnamon roast are those who are trading in low-quality coffees and want to roast light so they don't have as much roasting loss. Also, you might try exploring different coffees. Disclosure: I am the director of coffee for Counter Culture, and we execute broadly different roast profiles for different coffees, over the course of the year. I know that other quality-oriented companies do the same thing. Consistently, we tend toward lightness on the coffees that are delicately floral and beautifully fruity: especially East Africans and extraordinary Centrals. Many roasters (like us) tend towards slightly darker profiles on coffees that emphasize body and sweetness, like Indonesians for example. Frequently, we do lots of coffee at City/Full City, because that's when the coffee is at maximum sweetness. If you would have left specifics out of your post, I would have reccomended Terroir, they are well known for exploring the "light side". Keep fighting the good fight! Peter G

Peter G www.counterculturecoffee.com

Mark_G
Senior Member

Joined: 9 Jan 2006
Posts: 13
Location: NJ
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Apr 18, 2006, 11:26am Subject: Re: Seeking MicroRoaster Mail Order Recommendations

I feel like the shnook who finally bought the car of his dreams, a 12 cyl Ferrari Testarosa. The next week, newspapers announce oil reserves have run dry. No more gas. Peter, yours is sobering news, made more poignant by the silence from fellow geeks. What's perhaps most disconcerting is trying to understand the impetus behind the full city and dark roasts; has SB truly influenced this generation and what is acceptable to the palate? A friend and former roaster reminded me that the largest Euro roaster, illy, roasts to a lighter standard and sells tonnage around the world. I suppose that is just not the trend here and now. You're quite right. We'll continue to fight the good fight. Cordially, Mark P.S. Anyone want a good grinder? (kidding)

coffeeDirtDog
Senior Member

Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 331
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: Professional

Posted Tue Apr 18, 2006, 5:42pm Subject: Re: Seeking MicroRoaster Mail Order Recommendations

Terroir's roasts are the lightest and most distinct I have ever tasted but that is in no way a negative. They are using super quality beans(think tiny really hard beans) so the light roasts can produce great experiences. If you are willing to take the time to figure out how to brew them correctly, the Terroir lineup can be amazing. it's important to brew high quality light roasts like these at lower temps as opposed to the common theory that light roasts like higher temps. I think GHH would consider himself of the Illy school of thought. Old school if you will. Cheers, jaime

www.barismo.com

PeterG
Senior Member

Posted Wed Apr 19, 2006, 6:24am Subject: Re: Seeking MicroRoaster Mail Order Recommendations

I must disagree with you a touch here, Mark. I think that I can safely speak for the four roasters you mentioned that each are really committed to delivering the roast that the coffee "wants": i.e. the "sweet spot" where the coffee tastes best, independent of presumptions about roast level. I think you're a bit off base by suggesting that this is evidence of Starbucks influencing taste acceptability. I can tell you for certain, the roasters at Intelly, Stumptown, Terroir, and CCC spend a TON of time tweaking roasts in order to deliver the one that makes the coffee sing to them. I think that, for those roasters anyhow, it is a mistake to characterize them as "light roasters" or "dark roasters". All deliver many different roasts of many different shades; just as it should be in my opinion. As a roaster, I don't believe that most coffees show all that well at cinnamon: the body is underdeveloped and the sweetness is overwhelmed by acidity. Most roasters have their own definition of "full city"; ours is in the neighborhood of 55 agtron, which Ken Davids calls "Medium American". Our lightest roast this year, a 65 agtron Kenya, is what I call "city". 65 is also the cupping standard for purchasing. Cinnamon is an order of magnitude lighter than that, and is really sour and grassy to most palates. You seem to be operating under the assumption that lighter=better, which is definitely not any more true than the old darker=better paradigm. Instead, I would suggest you look towards offerings from countries who tend to produce balanced, sweet coffees with few overpowering characteristics: of the top of my head I would suggest El Salvador, Honduras, Colombia, and Panama. Great roasters with great green would tend towards moderate roasts on these coffees, to underscore the inherent balance and sweetness of the origin. Finally, don't be discouraged! There are lots of great coffees out there for you to discover! Keep that grinder! I get the feeling that you just haven't found "your" coffee yet. Peter G

Peter G www.counterculturecoffee.com

aurelio
Senior Member

Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 859
Location: Michigan, USA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Evolution
Grinder: Astra(CT)/Antigua
Vac Pot: Santos/FP/AP
Drip: Presto-SG/Krups(pourover)
Roaster: Alp

Posted Wed Apr 19, 2006, 8:16am Subject: Re: Seeking MicroRoaster Mail Order Recommendations

Mark, Just for reference sake, take a look at sweetmaria's roast profile at http://www.sweetmarias.com/roasting-VisualGuideV2.html . Note that anything lighter than a City roast and the beans have not fully developed, yet. Peter is right. Don't get discouraged. There are many roasters doing great things with City roasts. Terroir's coffees are like fine, delicate wines to me. They truly are something special. And Counter Culture is no slouch either! I was at one of my favorite local cafes 2 days ago (Cafe Zola) and they serve Counter Culture coffee. I had a French-pressed Ethiopian Sidamo that was out of this world! The blueberry notes wafting from my cup had me tickled to death! I wanted to take my cup to the other customers and have them see what good coffee can be like! My point is...you're not going to get those fruity notes in a dark roast, so there are roasters out there that focus on the correct roast for the bean, as Peter stated. There are lots of high quality micro-roasters. Terroir, Counter Culture, Intelligentsia (not sure if they qualify as micro but still high quality), Paradise, Metropolis, to name a few. Good luck and don't give up! Aurelio

"I am the great Cornholio!" -- an overcaffeinated Beavis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My favorite CG posts... Ristretto & blonding: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/questions/202518 FP brewing tips: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/188186 Vacpot brewing tips: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/184393 Green bean sellers: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/homeroast/179595 Inside the mind of a CG: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/members/offtopic/176471

chrisntine
Senior Member

Joined: 6 Feb 2006
Posts: 231
Location: northern california
Expertise: Just starting

Grinder: virtuoso
Drip: kb-741 (en route), kmb,...
Roaster: ufo/to (dormant)

Posted Wed Apr 19, 2006, 11:22am Subject: Re: Seeking MicroRoaster Mail Order Recommendations

In previous threads on light v. dark roasts, Ecco Caffe in Santa Rosa, CA is consistently recommended (and Mark Prince often speaks highly of them). I'm just a newbie so can't give you much more detail or comparison info (other than I love their coffee ;0), but thought you might want to check them out. Their website is supposed to be set up soon to order online. Until then, you can email the address on the site and get a list of offerings and order directly from Andrew Barnett: click here. HTH. ~christine

kbuzbee
Senior Member

Joined: 2 Feb 2006
Posts: 562
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso Preciso
Vac Pot: Cona D
Drip: I don't drip

Posted Thu Apr 20, 2006, 5:55am Subject: Re: Seeking MicroRoaster Mail Order Recommendations

I agree completely with you Peter. At Daybreak we are constantly evaluating our roasts to see that they are bringing the most out of the bean. Sometimes that is a lighter roast but many times it is not. Each bean is unique and does have it's own "sweet spot" as you say. The other thing we've found is the difference between brewing methods. We recently did a knock out Kona that was fantastic for every method EXCEPT espresso on my La Pavoni. I just couldn't get a decent pull. Every other method it was terrific. My personal favorites for espresso are done to the (slightly) darker side. I find that brings out more of the bottom end flavors (caramel and such) and tones down the higher ends. Everyone has their own preferences of course. Fortunately there are so many great coffees to choose from. Ken

rhodes553
Senior Member

Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Moka Pot
Grinder: Solis Maestro Plus
Drip: Melitta Pour-Over
Roaster: D'Amico Foods, Brooklyn

Posted Thu Apr 20, 2006, 6:53am Subject: Re: Seeking MicroRoaster Mail Order Recommendations

Mark, I can recommend my local super-micro-roaster very highly (and I have done so on this site before). D'Amico Foods in Brooklyn, New York isn't afraid of the light side. For the kind of preferences you've stated, I might suggest their Guatemala Antigua, which I've actually been hooked on lately. Good Luck, Mike

moneymanager
Senior Member

Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 161
Location: Indiana
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Silvia
Grinder: Tranquilo
Drip: FP & pour over
Roaster: RK Drum

Posted Wed May 3, 2006, 8:46pm Subject: Re: Seeking MicroRoaster Mail Order Recommendations

Why not be your own roaster? You'll save a bunch and can customize your roast level precisely to your preference. Having the control is a huge benefit, as well as the cost savings.

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