denhamia Senior Member Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 6 Location: Australia Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: megacrem 2 group compact Grinder: marfil Roaster: Coffee Roasters Sydney
Posted Mon Nov 6, 2006, 2:45am Subject: Holes in my biscuit!
When I am emptying out my group head (despite having a lovely firm biscuit) I am finding that I have three indicators that may mean something is not quite right.
On the edge there is occassionally a hole
The grinds are consistently coming up on the inside edge the basket and I am having to clean off the shower head quite regularly as the grinds are getting up around the edge of this.
The biscuit is a little wet on top when taken from the group head
I am using a slightly curved, stainless steel tamper (as this was the only one available at the time) and I wonder if size is an issue as it is about 2mm smaller than the basket. I have read that you can do a four point tamp, then place tamper in the middle, tamp and polish, which I have been doing. I have also tried tapping the side and not tapping, thinking that tapping the side may be moving the packed grinds from the edge and allowing water to move faster down the sides but either way makes no difference.
Anyone have some suggestions. Should I be looking for a flat tamper and/or a larger one or is there something else I can do to improve the situation without forking out more money for another tamper.
Nb the coffee still tastes great, but I am thinking that it could become greater than great if I can sort out the above problem.
Posted Thu Nov 9, 2006, 9:33am Subject: Re: Holes in my biscuit!
Hi denhamia, The hole are a result of chanelling which happens when water finds a path of least resistence through the puck. This can often be remedied by better distribution on the basket. The grinds on the edge may be due to the fact that your tamper is most likely too small. It is important that your tamper fit the basket or you won't be able to compact the grounds into a unified surface that can resist the water well. The water on the top of the puck can be caused by a few factors. It may be that you can adjust the amount of coffee you dose into the basket (assuming that this doesn't neg. affect the taste) to fill the basket a bit more. Let taste be your guide. regarding tapping, I just learned a new method that is working for me. I used to tap on the side of the PF after a initial leveling tamp and notices some rupture of bed integrity. Someone showed me that if you tap straight down onto the pf lightly all the extra gounds fall right in much easier. hope that helps
Posted Fri Nov 10, 2006, 4:16pm Subject: Re: Holes in my biscuit!
I can tell you straight away whats causing that. The expobar is very very very finiky in regards to dose. You cannot updose on this machine.... Well you can but the extraction will not be even. You need to find that sweet spot for correct dose in order to achieve even extraction. I have done so much testing with the naked pf on my machine. It has E61 heads so the shower screen dips down quite abit. You need to be mind full that you need to dose under the showerscreen (after tamping)
To do this you usualy can just dose into basket untill there is a small heap on top and knock down once or twice depending on what level you want. Lock pf into group head then pull it back out and see if the puck is still in 1 piece. If its had its head knocked of then thats where your problems are. Also if your grinder sucks your going to be having all sorts of problems too.
Another point is id be using a convex tamper as well..... this will provide a great foundation for an even extraction if all other variables or sorted out aswell. Make sure its a good tamper because it is very important. Flat tamper is ok but it gives you a donut pattern extraction from when looking underneath on this machine. Im pretty sure i know what tamper you are using..... im not a fan of that at all.
As for tapping the basket while tamping i just cannot see any negative effects it causes... because it doesnt providing you dont tap it after you have done your final tamp. Just work on getting the correct dosage. You want a firm puck that does not hit the showerscreen before extraction and no evidence of ditting or channeling etc.
denhamia Senior Member Joined: 29 Oct 2006 Posts: 6 Location: Australia Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: megacrem 2 group compact Grinder: marfil Roaster: Coffee Roasters Sydney
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006, 12:33am Subject: Re: Holes in my biscuit!
Thanks again for your suggestions iamloco, I will work on my dosage level again (so far my grinder seems to be fine, so this should not be the problem). My tamper is convex but as suggested above maybe a mm too small (its 57mm) what size are you using?. I'm glad its not just me having troubles with the expobar, I hope all the hard work in learning the nuances in the machine are worth it. NB I have the frothing bit under control, but boy does the megacrem create super fast foam! you've got to watch out or its burnt milk in seconds!
PeaberryPicker Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2006 Posts: 201 Location: West Chester, PA Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Astoria CKE Drip: gold mesh
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006, 8:09am Subject: Re: Holes in my biscuit!
Someone showed me that if you tap straight down onto the pf lightly all the extra gounds fall right in much easier.
How exactly do you mean? What are you tapping with, and where on the pf is your target tapping area?
I have been using the Staub since that tamping article came out, but I have found that I consistantly get a micro thin bit of dry grounds that cling to one area of the basket edge. After the shot, it has puffed up to a milimeter thick, and filled in the space between the basket and the edge of the screen exactly as described by Denhamia. In order to combat this, I have been combining the Staub to "scrape" the basket edge with the tamper, with a thwack of the portafilter itself on to the edge of the counter. I am not hitting the spousts, but the bottome of the "cup" portion of the pf, but some of the bits still cling to the side. My tamper is 58mm, so there is not really any elbow room in there.
So does your tap on the pf disslodge all the cling-ons, or just some?
Also, I let a bar towel hang over the counter edge when I thwack.
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006, 12:50pm Subject: Re: Holes in my biscuit!
Here's drawing (I know, I know, it looks just like a photograph but it's really just a drawing) of what I mean. ps- I know it knocks-up the pf but I think that towel is absorbing the much needed shock in your 'thud' technique.
Posted Mon Nov 13, 2006, 4:12pm Subject: Re: Holes in my biscuit!
denhamia- I know what tamper you have because i have that one in my collection of tampers from when i just started out. Well im pretty sure i know the one. I hate the feel of it in my hand and its also to small (57mm its a big 57mm though lol) my weapon of choice for the moment has been a Reg Barber Euro curve tamper. It has a really nice feel to it. You get what you pay for so to speak though and im happy with it.
Hmmm i dont think it creates ''microfoam'' that fast and you will think that to once you get used of it. You will be able to do it blindfolded and with ease.
There are nuances with this machine but that is just the nature of the game. I think this machine is ideal if you want to have a lower dose because thats when it performs its best.
I do have an interesting thought though. I always love experimenting with updosing and even more so OVER dosing heheehe. Any ways i wanted to see the effects on extraction it had using my naked pf. I always seem to get some sort of channeling whilst using the naked pf going for the up dose method. Now i am curious because when i use my spouted pf and updose there is no evidence of anything on the puck.
Here is my theory and it is just a theory lol. The spouted pf is heavier than the naked obviously. So when you lock in your overdosed pf you can lock it in easier due to the added weight of the pf. Where as a naked is lighter and i feel as though i cant lock it in as well as i can with the spouted pf due to its weight. This may contribute to the channeling with naked pf where as the pours i get using the spouted pf look fanstasic... Thick and gooey. BUT then again looks can be deceiving. So my point is the naked pf might not be all that accurate in some cases ?? BUT im pretty sure im not sure haha
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