coffeejoe1929263333 Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2008 Posts: 1 Location: St. Louis Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008, 1:34pm Subject: what has happened to the taste of coffee?
I have loved coffee since I was too young to drink it. The aroma of brewing coffee was all I was allowed to have at first, but I used to sneak tastes when my parents weren't looking. I started drinking it regularly at the age of 12. It cost a nickel a cup in a diner then. I loved it, and it all tasted about the same no matter where you went. It was brewed in huge urns with spigots on the bottom. All restaurants seemed to have them. Then later came the smaller rigs with the glass pots. That was OK for years as well.
It seems that in recent years (perhaps about the time that Starbucks came into being?) I found that I was having a hard time finding a good cup of coffee in restaurants, and an equally hard time finding a satisfactory packaged coffee for home brewing. I used to buy Colombian coffee, and found 8 o'clock and several others good. Then, inexplicably, I'd find one bag to be very good and the next one not so hot, then another good, etc. I switched to Folgers and had the same experience. I finally couldn't find any that was good.
I finally started buying more expensive Colombian coffee brands and have had the same experiences. I had a freezer filled with half used bags or cans. I was paying as much as $12 a pound for some of it and found it undrinkable.
Finally , a few months ago I found Dunkin' Donuts coffee for sale in the markets and it was like old times. The taste was excellent. I bought another bag, and it wasn't quite as good. The next bag was worse. I tried buying whole beans and grinding my own, but that didn't help. The last bag was so bad I took it back, and now I quit making it at home. I find Mc Donald's to be pretty good if they don't make it too strong, so I'm reduced to only that way of enjoying my coffee these days. I used to enjoy Steak & Shake's coffee also, but recently, they switched from their own blend to Seattle's Best which I dislike strongly. It's very much like Starbucks.
Here's my question. Do some of the coffee brands get us hooked by using a top grade of bean, then reduce the quality? Or does it go stale on the store shelves even if its in cans? This is what seemed to happen with Dunkin' Donut. I'm using the same water (filtered well water...no chlorine) I'm using the same method of brewing....drip/ one cup at a time. I freeze the coffee after every use. (I know that's not the problem as the rare good stuff keeps its taste throughout the bag)
Is the rest of the world whose currency hasn't tanked buying all the good beans which we used to get? Or could it be that Starbucks is buying it all and the rest of us get the chaff.
Can someone tell me where I could buy good Colombian beans and roast it myself? Perhaps that's the answer. Where to buy a roaster? HELP!
Aside from that you could find somebody else who sources good beans, roasts them properly, and can get them in your hands within a few days or so after roasting.
Other than that the prospects are bleak.
"coffee is bag to me. It always follow me like bag. I do love coffee. Its taste & aroma make me sweet~ . I happy happy day with coffee"
Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008, 2:30pm Subject: Re: what has happened to the taste of coffee?
I have one theory about the "worsening coffee" thing: one-way valve bags. I too have found that I'll have random experiences with pre-packaged beans. It will either be bad, or it will be decent and subsequent ones will be bad too.
When was it, late 80's or so that the one-way valve bags appeared? It gave coffee roasters and distributors a way to provide fresher whole beans to the customer without their bags exploding. But I've found several problems with these:
It seems to give the distributor and stockers an excuse to over-extend the shelf-life of the beans. However, I and others on the site are coming to the conclusion that not only is oxygen an enemy to roasted beans, time is as well. This doesn't seem to prevent the roasters from giving a six-month (Starbucks) or longer shelf-life to their product. So if you get a relatively recent roast, it will taste better than the one that's older. In other words, a crapshoot.
These foil/mylar bags have an annoying knack of getting creases and pinches that rip tiny holes in the bag, thus letting the air in anyway. If you can smell the coffee through the bag, then it's broken. The supermarket will demand the same price for a creased bag as for an uncreased one, and you can't return either once you open it and find it out.
It is easier to provide a more consistent product with ground coffee, even if it is worse and more fragile on average. I think the main enemy is the demand for low price, so that the market is flooded with bad cheap coffee. People don't realize how much better it can be, so they don't demand better. Companies focus on providing the gourmet experience instead of the gourmet product.
Even so, there are so many places where coffee can go bad, from the farm to the export to the storage to the roaster to your home. Even the best of preparation can be lost with a misstep along the way.
Much more so than baking bread at home, coffee is much better if you take the care to roast it yourself (like you said). Rely on a good greens supplier, and spend 20 minutes a week to make a half-pound of the best coffee you've ever had. You've come to the right place. Look through the reviews. You can start with a cheap method to get your hands dirty, or spend a little more for an appliance; and it's much cheaper than $12/lb. Standard non-specialty green coffee from Sweet Marias is about $5-6/lb plus shipping, even less for some varieties in larger quantities. The greens last much longer than the roasted, for a whole season or two.
Another reason above all this to consider is changing tastes. I've noticed my taste changing sometimes, whether it's age or medications or whatever. So think about that... maybe your palate is maturing to require only the best coffee in the world.
Posted Mon Jul 21, 2008, 8:36pm Subject: Re: what has happened to the taste of coffee?
Hi Joe,
Welcome to the forum. I think you are about to embark on a slippery slope. Soon you will be seeking out good beans and roasting them.
Tho long answer to your question can be found in a book which you may find fascinating. I did. The Title is: UNCOMMON GROUNDS The Author is Mark Pendergrast. The whole book is about the history of coffee and how it transformed the world. A good reason why store bought coffee is what it is will be found in chapter 14. Robusta Triumphant.
JVBorella Senior Member Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 488 Location: northeastern CT. Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: LaSpaziale Vivaldi S1V2 Grinder: Mazzer SJ,KA Pro,Zassenhaus... Vac Pot: Press Pots/Finum Filters Drip: No Thanks Roaster: Before Long
Posted Tue Jul 22, 2008, 4:41am Subject: Re: what has happened to the taste of coffee?
Roasting your own coffee is fine but it isn't a requirement to get consistently good fresh roasted s/o beans. I have no problem buying excellent whole bean coffee from well known roasters all over the country. PT's Coffee, Terroir, Counter Culture, ect always come through with coffee that doesn't disappoint & its at my door a couple days after roasting.
Posted Tue Jul 22, 2008, 9:31am Subject: Re: what has happened to the taste of coffee?
JVBorella Said:
Roasting your own coffee is fine but it isn't a requirement to get consistently good fresh roasted s/o beans. I have no problem buying excellent whole bean coffee from well known roasters all over the country. PT's Coffee, Terroir, Counter Culture, ect always come through with coffee that doesn't disappoint & its at my door a couple days after roasting.
I will agree with PJK on this one. If you can find a good, local roaster who provides fresh, dated roasts, then you'll get better and more consistent beans from them. These are more common in larger cities, but may be hard to find in some areas; I don't know about St. Louis where you live to tell you who might be a good choice.
As for internet roaster sales, I'd encourage you to get good feedback from other purchasers before you take the plunge (as PJK provided above). Roasted coffee costs more than green (usually) and you also have to pay shipping, so keep this in mind.
Posted Tue Jul 22, 2008, 1:52pm Subject: Re: what has happened to the taste of coffee?
Have you had a good tomato lately? Where did you pick it? "Coffee is a crop, not a can of pop." Tom at Sweet Marias. Good coffee is a 'specialty item' so to get started, buy fresh roast from the sources recomended here. But the ultimate long term solution (if you are steeply inclined) is to roast your own.
Posted Wed Jul 23, 2008, 3:33pm Subject: Re: what has happened to the taste of coffee?
The double ristretto based latte I had with my breakfast was a single origin from Aceh in Indonesia, home roasted and rested for 10 days it was an amazing experience and the lingering aftertaste is still with me now. If you don't want to home roast, find a good specialty roaster in your area and only buy enough beans to last you a week or so, keep them is a one-way valve bag for freshness and in a dark cupboard. If you are serious about drinking good coffee seek out a reliable source and stick with it and don't buy pre-packed stale garbage from the huge conglomerates.
Posted Thu Aug 21, 2008, 6:46am Subject: Re: what has happened to the taste of coffee?
You can't do much about consistency from batch to batch, even with the best vendors. Much has to do with the fickle nature of the seasons at almost any plantation. Coffee brokers are perennially having to switch growers when certain sources end production. This changes the blends they offer throughout the year.
A really good Costa Rican or Columbian can come up harsh and bitter simply by a forced change in plantations. Peruvian is an excellent example. It's Tungimayo is excellent when you can get it. But it has a short production period. When you switch to Chanchamayo, you get a harsher taste, despite it being at the top of the market.
When you buy commerical you have no control over what has gone into the bag you buy. All you can control (with some limits there also) is time since roasting. Starbucks gives a date that you can extrapolate back to a probable roasting date, which accounts for why one bag is outstanding and another is heading for the trash.
There are online resources that will guarantee delivery to your house within 4 days of roasting, but some are pricey. West Coast Roasting Company is a very good source.
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