Posted Sat Dec 28, 2013, 11:43am Subject: TV stronger than Moka Pot?
New to the world of gourmet coffee, I'm experiencing some confusing results with my equipment. Maybe I'm crazy, but it seems my TV KB 741 (glass carafe and 3 position switch) is making some extremely stout coffee. As or more stout than my Bialetti Moka Express (3 cup).
I found it pretty simple to make a fairly good drink with the Bialetti. I measured the water and beans, and it seemed to be about 15-16g of an Italian Roast (very dark and oily), ground with a Breville Smart Grinder, about 4 small notches from the right in the espresso section, with 155g of hot tap water. (essentially very lightly tamped grounds to level and water to recommended level). Now, I don't usually drink straight espresso. Mixed it with some warm milk and part of a chopped up Hershey bar. Needs more or different chocolate, and maybe whole milk instead of skim, but was close enough that I know I will be getting very acceptable results soon.
I did taste some of the straight result from the Moka Express, and I really couldn't say is was much, if at all stronger flavored than what I have been getting from the Technivorm. Which leads me to wonder, when I keep hearing about how the TV makes such great coffee, is an extremely strong cup of coffee considered to be great, by the majority of coffee geeks? Is that why the TV gets such high reviews?
My method with the TV has been wildly experimental, as I am having serious trouble getting a nice tolerable cup. I start with 825g of water, which I chose as it tends to leave me with approximately my weekday morning consumption amount. I have tried several different blends of beans, ground from various settings across the board (drip/perc section), with weights varying from 40g to 55g. The beans are from a local gourmet bean provider. None of the results have been anything I enjoy or would look forward to tasting. I have also played with stirring while brewing, and letting the brew steep a bit with the drip stop closed.
So, what do I do to produce a weaker, but good (non bitter, flavorful without being overpowering, mild aftertaste) cup, for my work week morning cup of black coffee, with this TV, or is it possible. Does it sound like the ratio, grind, or bean choices are the problem?
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 7,499 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32 Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Msl. Com. brewers Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Dec 30, 2013, 1:29pm Subject: Re: TV stronger than Moka Pot?
I have not used the TV so I don't have much to say there but I CAN say that you should buy better beans!
Just because they come from a local roaster, that does not mean that they are fresh roasted! Fresh beans are less than two weeks from the day they were roasted until you use them up! If there isn't a roasted ON date on the bag, you have NO idea of how old the coffee is!
TO THAT, practically no one here drinks burnt coffee. When you have dark and oily beans, they are over roasted. You might as well buy straight from Kingsford, it cost less per pound! The beans should be BROWN and DRY! See the bean roasting chart at Sweet Maria's for what the different roasts look like. Click Here (www.sweetmarias.com)
In real life, my name is Wayne P. Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Posted Mon Dec 30, 2013, 4:39pm Subject: Re: TV stronger than Moka Pot?
Thanks for the reply. I was beginning to think I had somehow offended, or people thought I was trolling, as there were no replies.
I have been experimenting with different roast/beans actually. When I first went in, I explained that I was new at this, and that I didn't really know what I was going to like. I left with 4 varieties, two for the moka pot (in order to make those chocolate lattés that I like so much), and two for my daily morning brew. The only one that was dark and oily is the french roast, which was recommended as one for the moka pot. You are most probably right that there is a better alternative for the so called espresso, however for the purpose of mixing with milk and chocolate, I was ok with the result. A strong, smokey, coffee flavor to back the sweet chocolate. Running those beans thru the TV was a disaster, as had been every other, but this was the worst.
The others I originally brought home were an espresso roast, (much lighter, tannish brown and no oil on the bean), which I still have not used in the moka pot. The other two were mid/light roast blends, although one had much more powerful aroma than the other. These are the ones that were tasting stronger than what I got from the dark & oily ones, compared to the Moka pot.
I spoke with the supplier about my experiences, and she recommended two others, of which I chose one. A Columbian Supremo Light I believe. Even this had the super strong aftertaste, so I reduced the dosage severely, and began to experience better results. Adjusting 5grams lower per batch, my best results were @ 35g/1000. As I only purchased 1/2lb, I ran out before I could play with the grind much, or vary the bean weight between 35 and 40. I really think I will switch to the La Minita, when I make my next purchase though, as it supposedly has a richer body, and less aftertaste. I'm assuming that is what I would want, as I didn't get much flavor with the coffee in my mouth, but could taste it well (too much so) on my breath after swallowing. It also left a powdery, not sure if that is gritty or chalky, feel in my mouth. Using the TV paper filters for now, and have no fines in the pot.
I started playing with the espresso roast that I have left (light roast, as mentioned earlier), in the TV today, as I was ok with the french roast for the Moka Pot. Actually, I kind of like it in the TV. Still @ the 35/1000 for the first batch, at nearly a french press grind, I could taste the drink pleasantly, and the flavor on my breath wasn't as intense, or long lasting, as the Columbian light. It is a tad sour (I think I would call it sour instead of bitter, but am struggling with the difference in those terms with coffee) on the breath, more so as it cools. If I could get rid of that, I'd probably settle for it as my daily, at least until my pocketbook could afford more experimenting. I think I'll try changing the grind more towards the drip center, before increasing the dose.
Would this be the correct "next step"?
My brew method is preheat with a couple cups, wetting the filter, then do the close drip and stir bit about 15 seconds in, then full open to end of brew, with a little stir with about two cups left in the TV. It is taking just over 5 minutes from water first hitting the grounds, to a slow drip in the pot. I'm not sure at what point the brew time should be stopped? At first drip, when drip is a second between?
I know I covered a lot here, and I apologize. Just trying to give as much info as possible, so good recommendations can be made. I'm anxious to get to, at least, an acceptable pot.
Posted Sun Jan 5, 2014, 11:32am Subject: Re: TV stronger than Moka Pot?
Woohoo!!! I've finally got a good cup in the TV. 45g/1000 at a fairly course grind. 3rd settings from the left, under the "0" in percolate. Have been happiest with the lighter colored espresso blend beans. It's really kind of sweet tasting, with no bitterness ...unless it gets pretty cool in the cup. Have made 3 pots now, with consistent results. No longer preheating the machine, but still rinsing the paper filter, although with cold water from the tap. Also am running my water through a Brita pitcher now.
Now that I have a good setting on the ratio and grind, for my taste anyway, should I expect the grind size to change much with other beans of similar roast levels?
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