Posted Thu Aug 21, 2003, 9:03am Subject: Re: Black Cat Hi Test/Decaf
Providence Said:
Received my order of Black Cat Decaf and Hi Test. The decaf roast is noticably darker. Anyone care to comment?
Hi CF,
AFAIK, due to the decaffination process such as SWP, that water treatment wash's out 99% of the caffine,also the cellular cellulose woody matrix of the bean swell's up , such as in the Monsooned Malabar which is expanded up to 40% greater in size.
The Monsooned bean's yes, & decaf bean's (I'm quessing/extrapolating here),in a by volume measure will weigh less.If going by a weight measure the bean's mass will occupy a greater volume,lighter for a volume measure, (say a 1 cup measure for example), aren't as dense, & therefore roast faster. In the Alp if I roast 227gr, 8oz of Malabar, I run the risk of spillage out of the roasting drum, & cut back approx 10 - 15% by weight to account for the greater volume/mass that the bean's occupy.
In the HWP I alway's roast 100gr for all my bean's but Monsooned Malabar I'll cut back to 85 - 90gr.The bean's roast quicker & to 1st oil happen's very fast also. There's less time for error.Maybe the roaster is roasting to a certain time frame as in his regular Hi Test & not allowing for this.Decaf's are trickier to roast properly.
jim_schulman Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 3,772 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Thu Aug 21, 2003, 9:41am Subject: Re: Black Cat Hi Test/Decaf
Craig's reply a little simplified: decaf beans are darker at the same degree of roast.
I've seen both the caf and decaf black cat roasted. They are roasted to the same temperature; about 30 seconds into the 2nd crack. The idea is to get the decaf to taste as close as possible to the caf.
Posted Thu Aug 21, 2003, 10:02am Subject: Re: Black Cat Hi Test/Decaf
another_jim Said:
Craig's reply a little simplified: decaf beans are darker at the same degree of roast.
I've seen both the caf and decaf black cat roasted. They are roasted to the same temperature; about 30 seconds into the 2nd crack. The idea is to get the decaf to taste as close as possible to the caf.
Jim,that's what I thought I said.., the more info a person put's down, like I just did, the meaning get's lost in the context...
Same time/length of roast, different degree of roast: Hi Test maybe "Full City" Agtron color tile # 50-45, Decaf "French" Agtron color tile #45-40.
Gerry Senior Member Joined: 12 Dec 2004 Posts: 15 Location: Massachusetts Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Isomac Tea Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Tue Dec 14, 2004, 12:37pm Subject: Re: Black Cat Hi Test/Decaf
I have always assumed that the gooey stuff on the outside of decaf beans arises because of the decaffeination process. This I imagined to be dissolving the caffeine and other stuff with a solvent (hopefully water, but not always) , then removing the caffeine from the solvent, putting back by the liquid solvent with all the other stuff, and evaporating the solvent, so that the other stuff is now stuck to the outside of the bean.
Would someone who knows like to tell us what actually happens in the decaf process?
I think you are probably referring to the oils on the surface of the coffee beans, this is a normal and natural result of the roasting process. Generally, the longer the beans are roasted, the more oils begin to come to the surface of the bean. Those oils give coffee a lot of its flavor!
Gerry Senior Member Joined: 12 Dec 2004 Posts: 15 Location: Massachusetts Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Isomac Tea Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Posted Fri Dec 17, 2004, 10:13am Subject: Re: Black Cat Hi Test/Decaf
I think you are probably referring to the oils on the surface of the coffee beans, this is a normal and natural result of the roasting process.
Thanks for the reply. Your comment about oils is true in general, especially for heavily roasted beans, but I've noticed that the decaf version of a roast that also has a high-test version has more "oils" on the surface than do the high-test beans. That's why I figured it has something to do with the decaf process. Then again, it could be that the decaf version is more highly roasted to make up for the flavor lost in the decaf process.
Posted Fri Dec 17, 2004, 10:06pm Subject: Re: Black Cat Hi Test/Decaf
Gerry,
You specificly asked : "Received my order of Black Cat Decaf and Hi Test. The decaf roast is noticably darker. Anyone care to comment?"
If Hi Test is meant to convey "Black Cat Regular", then the information is indeed puzzling ... I happened to spend a couple of hours this afternoon with a local "high end" commercial roaster who was determined to educate me. One of the points he demonstrated (by showing me side-by-side still-warm tubs of roasted coffee) was how the Decaf version of each of his estate coffees was just a little lighter looking than the Cafinated version after roasting. So I would have expected lighter rather than darker coffee.
(He also went on at length about how little caffein was in arabica coffees and that he thought I ought to just go with the regular. He sent me away with half a pound each of 100% regular, decaf and 50/50 of one of his blends and challenged me to find any difference in their taste or brewing performance under identical conditions. He attributes this sameness to his approach to preparation. I plan to test his claims tomorrow morning.)
Posted Mon Dec 20, 2004, 1:56pm Subject: Re: Black Cat Hi Test/Decaf
As a follow-up to the note above, I did compare the Decaf vs. Caffeinated and concluded:
They actually did taste different with identical treatment the Decaf ran faster at the same grind as regular I don't want any more of that particular coffee
While I am prepared to support the principal that we should give business to local roasters, it's not working for me at the moment.
Today I had reason to chat with a couple of people at Intelligensia about getting some Decaf for a tasting on New years eve. They commented in passing that I should realize that the Decaf will look darker than the regular. (They attributed this to something in the preparaion process, but I didn't register the details.) So I guess this is "normal" ... they probably will tell you the details if you call and ask.
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