Posted Fri Apr 20, 2007, 6:44pm Subject: Any Green Beans to Recommend?
I roast using an IRoast2, and have enjoyed RedLine (actually GreenLine when unroasted), Malabar Gold, Monkey Blend, and Vivace Dolce. When buying roasted, my favorite remains Black Cat, but among the green beans, by far I like the Dolce best. I am willing to stay with the Dolce as I really enjoy it, but I was wondering if there are any other gems that I've missed that might knock my socks off. I'm getting close to needing more beans to roast, and I'd like to try something different if really exceptional. Thanks
dfi Senior Member Joined: 27 Dec 2005 Posts: 12 Location: mid michigan Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Coffee Grinder: Mr. Coffee Burr Grinder Drip: starbucks french press Roaster: Fresh roast plus 8
Posted Mon Apr 23, 2007, 8:43am Subject: Re: Any Green Beans to Recommend?
I buy all of my greens from sweet maria's. I like the Liquid amber, Puro scuro and moka kadir. I pulled a quad Capp this am with moka kadir on three days rest. nice
billherbst Senior Member Joined: 6 Jul 2006 Posts: 63 Location: Florence, Oregon Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Brewtus II, Le'Lit PL041/PID Grinder: Roma Doserless, Ascaso iMini Vac Pot: Melior French Press Roaster: Behmor 1600, Poppery II
Posted Mon Apr 23, 2007, 7:47pm Subject: Re: Any Green Beans to Recommend?
Shrink,
I'm with you on the Dolce.
I popper roast lots of single origin beans that are interesting and very good, and Malabar Gold is certainly distinctive. So far, however, after almost a year of home-roasting about 35 pounds from Sweet Maria's, Coffee Wholesalers, Burman Coffee Traders, and Green Coffee Buying Club, nothing beats Dolce. Sweet, complex, and amazingly well-balanced. I do wish that Vivace offered their Vita blend unroasted as well, but at least Schomer lets us roast our own Dolce!
I see online and read here about various commercial green blends. Greenline has a following, a recent post lauded Caracolillo's green Espresso Blend #2, and Espresso Classico Green from Paradise Roasters in Minnesota is reputed to be excellent, but I'm too spoiled by Dolce right now to want to take a chance on anything else.
I'm sure that our preferences can change over time, but I ordered five more pounds of green Dolce just today. To me, it's well worth the extra cost ($8/lb. shipped).
Single origins are part of my "espresso education" (for instance, Costa Rican Eco-Brisas Gold, Brazilian Morenina Formosa, and Sumatran Mandheling Lintong Blue Batak are all stunning in unique ways), but Dolce is what I turn to when I want a little cup of heaven.
cbbaldwin Senior Member Joined: 20 Apr 2007 Posts: 4 Location: Nashville Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Salvatore, also 25-year-old... Grinder: Gaggia MDF Drip: Bunn Roaster: Modified West Bend StirCrazy...
Posted Tue Apr 24, 2007, 8:33pm Subject: Re: Any Green Beans to Recommend?
This may be covered elsewhere, but I'm new to the site. When you order preblended espresso green beans, like the Vivace Dolce, how far do you roast them?
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007, 4:14am Subject: Re: Any Green Beans to Recommend?
I am FAR from an expert in this area, but I have some profile that someone recommended long ago that I use, and I stop the roast as soon as I see the first signs of oil. It is somewhere into the second crack, but it all seems like voodoo to me. Sometimes my results are great and other times, not so great. Since the IRoast2 only does a small amount at a time, I'm never too distressed if it isn't great.
billherbst Senior Member Joined: 6 Jul 2006 Posts: 63 Location: Florence, Oregon Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Brewtus II, Le'Lit PL041/PID Grinder: Roma Doserless, Ascaso iMini Vac Pot: Melior French Press Roaster: Behmor 1600, Poppery II
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007, 4:18am Subject: Re: Any Green Beans to Recommend?
cbbaldwin Said:
This may be covered elsewhere, but I'm new to the site. When you order preblended espresso green beans, like the Vivace Dolce, how far do you roast them?
I don't mean to pose as an expert (I'm not), but I have roasted four pounds of Dolce in about 16 popper batches, experimenting with different roast levels.
Dolce isn't designed for a dark roast. Carmelization results in a burnt taste, deadens the lovely sweetness, and disrupts the complex balance. A northern Italian light roast is what Schomer intended, and that has proven to be exactly where Dolce shines.
I've been to Vivace in Seattle; they keep sample bowls of fresh-roasted Vita, Dolce, and Decaf beans right on the counter of the espresso bar). Their Dolce is City to City+. Vita looks to be Full City.
For popper roasting at least, Dolce requires careful monitoring, as it gets too dark quite suddenly. I stop the roast a couple minutes after 1st crack subsides, usually well before but no later than the very beginning of 2nd crack.
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007, 5:56am Subject: Re: Any Green Beans to Recommend?
Bill, If you were to construct a profile for the IRoast2 to roast Dolce, generally how would you then suggest to go? For example, the machine gives a max of 15 minutes and you can break that up into I think 6 temp/time segments. Would a slow ramp up to only a moderate temperature that can prolong the roast as much as possible be recommended? It sounds like you're saying that to wait until I see a bit of oil is too far. So, as soon as it is reasonably brown (I've seen charts with comparisons, it's still tough) and I hear the rat a tat of the second crack, I should stop? As I said, it is worth a try, but I've always been concerned about underroasting and getting grassy tastes. Thanks for input.
billherbst Senior Member Joined: 6 Jul 2006 Posts: 63 Location: Florence, Oregon Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Brewtus II, Le'Lit PL041/PID Grinder: Roma Doserless, Ascaso iMini Vac Pot: Melior French Press Roaster: Behmor 1600, Poppery II
Posted Wed Apr 25, 2007, 3:25pm Subject: Re: Any Green Beans to Recommend?
PrivateShrink Said:
Bill, If you were to construct a profile for the IRoast2 to roast Dolce, generally how would you then suggest to go? For example, the machine gives a max of 15 minutes and you can break that up into I think 6 temp/time segments. Would a slow ramp up to only a moderate temperature that can prolong the roast as much as possible be recommended? It sounds like you're saying that to wait until I see a bit of oil is too far. So, as soon as it is reasonably brown (I've seen charts with comparisons, it's still tough) and I hear the rat a tat of the second crack, I should stop? As I said, it is worth a try, but I've always been concerned about underroasting and getting grassy tastes. Thanks for input.
Well, Shrink, now you'll learn how out of my league I really am on this.
I've roasted only with an unmodified Poppery II, which (as you know) is the coffee roasting equivalent of a nitro-fueled quarter-mile dragstrip race. Floor it, get up to speed in 30 seconds, and go like a bat out of you-know-where until the finish line. I know that profiling is possible with the 1500-watt Poppery I or the 1400-watt pumper if you separate the fan and heater circuits and add a variac and a temp probe, but I'm just your basic throw-in-the-beans-and-take-off guy.
What I can tell you with certainty is this: When my friend John and I made our espresso pilgrimage to Vivace in Seattle, the sample roasted beans they had on the espresso bar counter in big bowls were revealing. The Vita (blended and roasted to cut through for capps or lattes) and the Dolce (blended and roasted for straight espresso) were both very light and uniform, without a speck of oil on either. John and I guessed City for the Dolce and City+ for the Vita based on color and smell. The uniformity was probably due to post-roast blending; the pre-blended green Dolce isn't likely to be quite as uniform when home-roasted.
On that visit in February, I bought half a pound of roasted Vita and a pound of unroasted green Dolce. Comparing my 8-9 minute outdoor winter roasts of Dolce to the Vivace-roasted Vita, I tasted precious little difference. Yes, the Vita was slightly more potent, but not much. Even with my unmodded Poppery II, I was thrilled at how close they were in the cup. So, I don't think you need worry much about extending the roast to avoid brightness or to smooth out the flavors. Increasing the time interval between 1st and 2nd crack is probably good, but stop the roast before 2nd if possible.
Basically, any oil is too far. To the best of my recollection, the roasted Vita and Dolce at Vivace were not even shiny, just a nice flat brown.
And give Dolce a long rest before use. Vivace doesn't sell their roasted beans until four days after roasting. I asked the barista about this, and he said that the light roasts require four full days of rest, then they're primo for about ten days after that.
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