Posted Tue Apr 22, 2003, 7:44pm Subject: SOY oooooh boy
To whom it may concern (like the lactose intolerant for instance), I was a vegetarian for while and was also not drinking milk. This was'nt a problem for my coffee drinking because I have always drunk it black however it did put a strangle hold on my lattes and capps. As I tried to get a decent soy- capp or latte I dicovered that not many people have any incentive to stock or use soy and if they do it is cheap soy for that pesky vegan that comes around now and again. College campuses recently have had more of it because it's getting to be cooler to order soy..maybe they never knew there was a choice...either way, one mis-conception that is floating around that I have been told and have heard the barista tell to customers is that "soy does'nt really froth well" or "you can't get foam with soy"...This is simply not true. It takes(just like anything else) the right ingredients, tools, and technique. Ever since I realized you could froth soy I always had in theback of my mind a desire to compare them all and see which ones were the best. After visiting Vivace last November at Coffee Fest It's been more of a quest...To find the soy milk that can be turned into dense micro-foam suitable for latte art. And I here to tell you that I have found it. The brand is Soy dream (enriched) or vanilla flavored. I could'nt believe how thick and dense the soy was...then on top of that I proceeded to pour one of the best rosetta pours I've have ever done...and the taste was excellent. I attribute this to the -enrichment- of the soy...just like skim milk I've heard that the added minerals have and encouraging effect on the foaming process (reacting well with the protiens in the soy) For whatever reason it is ...it works like a dream and then some. Soy takes some re-adjustment of you steaming technique but once you hit the sweet spot you'll be satisfying all those pesky soy-nuts(no pun intended) for life. Try it out-SOYDREAM(enriched) and Soydream vanilla (enriched). Let me know what you think...if any one else has made this discovery what insights do you have to add? -Deferio
I use a mix of milk and unsweetened condensed to foam.
Sometimes I grab the wrong can, and get "filled" milk, which is concentrated soy milk flavored with milk solids (good for the lactose intolerant, but not for those with milk protein allergies). It froths just as well.
I don't know if filled milk is cheaper or more expensive than soy milk (about $1 per 10 ounce can), but it will froth very nicely.
BTW, time to update your profile, Deferio; it's tough to froth without an espresso machine.
Jim, I guess if the customer did'nt care about milk being in their soy...but then again it would'nt work with vegans and those with allergies. I try to keep the soy as un-adulterated as possible from the last order with milk(out of respect for the customers order and the fact that I don't know if they have allergies etc...better safe than sorry) The Soy dream is about $2.75 for 32 fl.oz. Yes, I did update my profile just now...I guess I was refering to my lack of a home espresso machine. So I have posted the one I currently use at work. I was using a two group Rancillio but the coffee shop I was working for is closing at the end of the month and I had to fall back on my previous grocery store-coffee bar job (hey it pays the bills)any how the machine they use is a 3 group nuova simonelli. I'm thinking of ordering some new steaming tips for it too. maybe theres a two or three hole available that would fit this machine. The cool thing about this job, even though I'm the only one that really knows or cares about coffee, is the freedom of creativity I have behind the bar...this is what allowed me to learn milk texturing and latte art...sometimes the apathy can get pretty stifling but then it is about that time I realize... this ain't Seattle!
... I had to fall back on my previous grocery store-coffee bar job (hey it pays the bills)any how the machine they use is a 3 group nuova simonelli. I'm thinking of ordering some new steaming tips for it too. maybe theres a two or three hole available that would fit this machine. The cool thing about this job, even though I'm the only one that really knows or cares about coffee, is the freedom of creativity I have behind the bar...this is what allowed me to learn milk texturing and latte art...sometimes the apathy can get pretty stifling but then it is about that time I realize... this ain't Seattle!
What we have here is someone bringing a passion for good coffee and the willingness to experiment and learn to what we sometimes think of as quality coffee-free environment. To have someone like this working in a grocery store coffee bar is probably going to do wonders for the overall success of the store itself. Sure, it ain't Seattle... but where else is? Seattle isn't Milan either :)
If I had a grocery store near me with a coffee bar staffed by people like this, I'd go out of my way to use it. I just hope you are valued.
The local strip mall used to have a Burger King in the parking lot... it's now a Starbucks (drive-through). I went there to get some syrup (don't ask) and thought I'd see if the coffee was as dubious as I remember... I like to keep baseline data fresh in my head, and it always makes me feel good about my own shots :) I ordered a double shot and mentioned that the crema was a little thin... the reply spoke volumes... "the what?"
thanks bish, I'ts the Wegmans grocery store in Dewitt(east syracuse) They use PODs too...really burns me that they switched. They had problems with the "Mess" the grinders made etc and wanted to make drinks faster so they ended up switching. I must admit it's degrading to work with pods...but for a huge grocery store whos focus is'nt great coffee , but passable coffee to add to the shopping experience, it makes a little sense.Eecially if your considering that we get hundreds of customers a day (just at the coffee bar)...with the amount of employee turnoer involved it would be a nightmare to to train some kid even basics...I do what I can though. Wher is bellport in relation to Syracuse? -Deferio P.S. I left the bar for a bit for the other coffee house(the one thats closing) for a reall coffee job...they were going to train me for managment...oh well.
hyoomen Senior Member Joined: 5 Jan 2004 Posts: 91 Location: Dallas, TX Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Jan 5, 2004, 10:56pm Subject: Re: SOY oooooh boy
Interesting. Good thread idea, but did anybody ever experiment with any of the other milks? Have you experimented at all with the boxed milk (antisceptic or irradiated) versions of any of these brands? I work at Whole Foods and my gf used to work at Starbucks (ya, ya...blah, blah...), so we've dabbled with several of the soymilks for this purpose. Her store used Pacific, then I believe nationally the chain switched to Silk. Allegedly this form of silk is even specially fortified to work w/ Starbucks Espresso & Tazo Chai Tea syrups, but she says neither of the brands were particularly amazing when it came to foam.
I suppose I'll have to step behind our automagic bar at Whole Foods over the next few months and test all of the other brands we sell. Last I had checked, the Whole Foods brand (365) actually worked fairly well, but I'm not a latté art person.
Posted Tue Jan 6, 2004, 10:16am Subject: Re: SOY oooooh boy
I've not made foaming soy a focus in my life, but I'm working on pretty much eliminating dairy from my diet, due to allergies/asthma. (I've been ovo/lacto veg since 1985.) I've tried foaming Silk as well as my own homemade soy milk (from Soyajoy maker). I wasn't really successful but the biggest reason I've not pursued it more is that at least for now, I really don't like the way a soy latte tastes. I enjoy the soymilk straight, but somehow, that soy latte is just not the same. Personally, I won't touch the boxed soy anymore. (Until I bought a Soyajoy, I thought soymilk was supposed to be thick, brown gunk....) I think I'm going to pursue the homemade soy milk during the next few weeks. It's more the consistancy of cow milk (thinner).
Posted Tue Jan 6, 2004, 11:14am Subject: Re: SOY oooooh boy
I use Pacifc brand Rice milk for drinking, cereal, and lattes. I find that I can make micro foam just fine with it. The rice milk has a vanilla flavoring added, but it works well. I use Pacifc brand Soy for all of my cooking and baking.
el_coro Senior Member Joined: 3 Jan 2004 Posts: 6 Location: Flagstaff Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Cimbali M31 Bistro
Posted Tue Jan 6, 2004, 4:13pm Subject: Re: SOY oooooh boy
We use Soy Dream at my bar, and it foams quite well. We've also tried Silk Soy, but I find it some what watery compared to Dream, and we've also tried the aseptic boxes as well...they were good but I just didn't like the boxes ;)
We also offer rice milk, and that I can tell you, is difficult to foam...we use Rice Dream by the way. It does foam, but you will be hard up to make a full bodied Cap with rice milk ;) Also the rice foam tends to be more frothy, it's not as solid...but we do have a number of people who ask for it!
Going back to the college campus argument above, I agree. We are also located near a campus and pretty much everyone around us also offers Soy, usually Silk Soy though...we like to be different with our Soy Dream and Monin Chai! But as far as I know, rice milk is the way to go if you want to delight the veganese in your area.
Malibar Senior Member Joined: 4 Apr 2004 Posts: 157 Location: Durango, CO Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Bialetti Moka Pot (stovetop) Grinder: Rocky DL, Cuisinart... Drip: Pourover Cone, Bodum... Roaster: I wish
Posted Sun Jan 30, 2005, 6:31pm Subject: Re: SOY oooooh boy
Soy Dream here, too. No complaints. But what I wanted to report is the following comment on soy from a barista discussion board on myspace.com.
"Soy milk is great because it helps cancel out gross tasting choclate and makes expresso less harsh. Plus it's nice on cows."
...heh heh heh no comment...
But really, I couldn't resist. I just had to throw in my 2 cents, that espresso just like any other coffee preparation was originally drank black, and when well done, shouldn't be harsh at all... Haven't heard anything back yet, hope I didn't rain on their "Virtues-of-Soy" parade :(
Onward and upward in quality coffee education, my friends!
Hemingway had the ideal cofee shop figured out: "A clean, well-lighted place."
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