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Espresso: General Discussion
Has anyone gone back to a regular PF after using a naked pf?

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NYC_Crema
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Posted Wed Mar 23, 2005, 4:06pm Subject: Has anyone gone back to a regular PF after using a naked pf?

I'm just wondering if anyone went back to the regular i-have-spout(s) portafilter after using a naked aka bottomless portafilter? Of course, I don't mean using the bottomless portafilter for just a few days. The first shot I got with the naked PF was absolutely the best shot I've ever had and I've never bothered to try the regular portafilter again. In fact, the regular portafilter sits with the plastic Rancilio tamper and the single basket =) (Click for larger image)

http://espressojourney.blogspot.com/ http://www.espressoporn.com

flippant
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Posted Wed Mar 23, 2005, 4:09pm Subject: Re: Has anyone gone back to a regular PF after using a naked pf?

Only when I need to split shots. Except for the added mess (which isn't even important enough to be deemed a nuisance), there is no drawback.

twomartinis
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Posted Wed Mar 23, 2005, 4:18pm Subject: Re: Has anyone gone back to a regular PF after using a naked pf?

flippant Said: Only when I need to split shots. Posted March 23, 2005 link Ditto. I only use it when making double lattes for guests; most of whom tend to not like their shot at "championship strength." I made my gal's father (who was born and raised near Napoli) a double ristretto that [I thought] was the bomb-diggity; and he almost passed out! Molto forte, molto forte...

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NYC_Crema
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Posted Wed Mar 23, 2005, 7:50pm Subject: Re: Has anyone gone back to a regular PF after using a naked pf?

and you don't notice the taste of the spouted PF is not as good as the bottomless PF? I notice much more bubbly crema since I got naked.

http://espressojourney.blogspot.com/ http://www.espressoporn.com

nickcho
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Posted Wed Mar 23, 2005, 8:09pm Subject: Re: Has anyone gone back to a regular PF after using a naked pf?

We went COMPLETELY crotchless on all of our groups, at both of our shops, back when the news first broke out of Zoka (yeah.. lest anyone forget, it's the Zoka crew that first alerted the world of crotchlessness). We went back to all-spouted a couple of months ago. Why? Because it was making our baristas lazy. On the one hand, it was great that a barista could see the effects of improper distribution and channeling, and it was great that the espresso was so rich and yummy with gobs of crema. On the other hand, the rate of extraction and how good your pour was... that became harder to diagnose. In a way, the crotchless was almost like a corked baseball bat. Sure, it was fun hitting more homeruns, but after a while, I started to realize that something was missing. What appeared to be a homerun started to feel cheap. You could get a super-rich, gobs-of-crema shot... but it wasn't as fun. While my baristas were training for the South East Regional Barista Competition, I made the executive decision: spouts are back. Now our training has become much more intense. Now our best baristas still pour super-rich shots with gobs of crema... but without the steroids. I'd rather be Curt Schilling over Mark McGwire any day!

www.murkycoffee.com - www.portafilter.net

JBarista
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Posted Wed Mar 23, 2005, 9:20pm Subject: Re: Has anyone gone back to a regular PF after using a naked pf?

nickcho Said: I'd rather be Curt Schilling over Mark McGwire any day! Posted March 23, 2005 link I'd rather be Ichiro Suzuki than Barry Bonds! for all of you Seattle barista/baseball enthusists

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fookoonetwork
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Posted Wed Mar 23, 2005, 9:27pm Subject: Re: Has anyone gone back to a regular PF after using a naked pf?

Murkycoffee, Does this mean that the shots via the spouted PF are equivalent or better than those from the naked PF, assuming proper technique for both? Comparing the naked PF to something like steroids seem to be unfair because the naked PF does not add anything but takes away the hardware that was clearly coloring the pours. I would think that the naked PF is even more demanding on technique because the flaws are more readily revealed. At any rate, I don't see any point in going back to the spouted PF unless one wants to split a pour via double spouts.

NYC_Crema
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Posted Wed Mar 23, 2005, 10:14pm Subject: Re: Has anyone gone back to a regular PF after using a naked pf?

nickcho Said: In a way, the crotchless was almost like a corked baseball bat. Sure, it was fun hitting more homeruns, but after a while, I started to realize that something was missing. What appeared to be a homerun started to feel cheap. You could get a super-rich, gobs-of-crema shot... but it wasn't as fun. While my baristas were training for the South East Regional Barista Competition, I made the executive decision: spouts are back. Posted March 23, 2005 link So, the only reason you went back to a spouted PF for means of training and from what I read had absolutely nothing to do with the taste...? I can understand your baseball analogy, but I'm not trying to make my life harder with working harder to produce a good shot. =) Being in NYC, DC is like 4 hours away and I even have family there - so now I know what D.C. cafe to hit up when I'm in the area =)

http://espressojourney.blogspot.com/ http://www.espressoporn.com

KyleGlanville
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Posted Wed Mar 23, 2005, 10:42pm Subject: Re: Has anyone gone back to a regular PF after using a naked pf?

those zokies who designed the naked are now stumpies, and you'll notice that even they don't use them in the cafes. they aren't logical in a commercial setting: far too unstable. however, they are excellent for training as well as geeking out.

nickcho
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Posted Wed Mar 23, 2005, 11:03pm Subject: Re: Has anyone gone back to a regular PF after using a naked pf?

Professional MLB ballers use wooden bats. That doesn't mean that you should too... aluminum bats have much more 'pop,' and there's no reason to handicap yourself just because the Red Sox use wooden bats. Keep using your crotchless portafilters... and don't ever think that I or anyone else would think you're 'juicing.' I used the steroids analogy (people here know me for my psycho analogies... most involve some sort of bathroom activity) only to follow my corked-bat analogy. In no way do I think that a crotchless pf is 'wrong.' However, maybe it is a little cheating. Cheating just as pulling ristretto shots instead of full ounce shots is cheating... just like overdosing and/or triple-baskets for 2 ounces-or-less of espresso is cheating. Cheating in baseball gets you in trouble... cheating in espresso gets you (hopefully) yummy espresso. In other words, it's cheating... but there's nothing wrong with cheating in espresso... unless you're in a competition, of course. Another reason I didn't mention, regarding why I went back to spouts: La Marzocco last year came out with newer, 'nicer' spouts than what I had on my late 2002-model Linea. I had the old spouts with the diverter screw (hex bolt on the front) and 'closed' spouts. The newer ones without a diverter screw and the 'open and narrower spout' design allows not only for the espresso to flow with less restrictions, but the two spouts are narrow enough to fit most demi's under to catch both pours. My old LM spouts were really wide. Our old spouts created much more back-pressure, indicated by the surface of the portafilter (under the basket) being stained higher-up the walls. The crotchless was a God-send. Our new spouts (on the new LM portafilters) are awesome, and greatly reduced the need/want to go crotchless. The proof is in the cup, as we like to say... and the fact is, for a home-enthusiast, you drink most of the shots that you pull, and so crotchless makes a lot of sense. Pull your shot, and taste it. Is it good? Then good! In our coffeebar environment, it's a little different. The crotchless was great (as mentioned before) to indicate improper distribution or leveling. But just as the exposed basket indicates for that, the 'fat' pour also tends to hide other flaws, such as distribution-flaws of a lesser degree. For more intense visual diagnoses, the spouts are more helpful. Remember, my baristas generally need to rely totally on visual diagnosis of espresso pours. So to you homies, know this: though we pro's are out there with their $10,000 machines and stuff, you can always hold one thing over us: you drink proportionately much more of the coffee that you make than we ever do. :-P One more thing... in case it hasn't been written before, let me say it here: if there's one major thing that the crotchless portafilter has taught us, it's that distribution is MUCH more important than how level your tamp is. The folks who claim 'actually, you don't have to tamp at all' aren't 100% wrong... maybe just 95%. The water does indeed tamp the coffeebed much harder than you would physically, and so tamp-level issues are equalized by the water pressure fairly quickly. However, if you've got an uneven distribution of coffee density within the puck, nothing can remedy that... welcome to an overextracted shot.

www.murkycoffee.com - www.portafilter.net

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