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One of the evidence to see the quality of your espresso!
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pstam
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pstam
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Posted Thu Mar 31, 2005, 10:42am
Subject: One of the evidence to see the quality of your espresso!
 

I would announce my point here first, that I would not offend any of the friends here.

As we are coming here not for hearing good words only, even if any one like to hear it, but for getting our brewing skills improved to have a better taste of espresso.

Also, as I used to be in a scientific atmosphere, we prefer to hear the trueth more than a good word because we have to go further, never stopped somewhere.

What I would like to talk about in the following is only to know the trueth, not anything else.  If we were wrong, we would know it earlier, not years later.  Otherwise, we waste too much time for nothing.

------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------

As one of the general understanding about the real taste of espresso in Italy, I would believe that espresso should be tasted very well.  Otherwise, there is no reason why so many Italian like it.  It seems that Italian people are not used to disturb nor hurt themselves by something too much bitter, because they like very good food.  In fact, nobody would do it to themselves.

If the espresso in the local area is averaged good, the people there tend to like it.  As we know in Italy.  While for other area, if the espresso is not so good, sometimes not even drinkable, the people will never like it.  I do not know how you understand it, but this is really my understanding.

From other post, I saw in some coffee shop, the sale of espresso is only about 2-3% of the total sale of coffee drinks.  After I saw it, I would like to get some data from our shops.

This evening, I collected the data from one of our franchised coffee service, which is an Italian restaurant and Bar, and found that the espresso including the double and ristretto, not hammerhead or red eye, takes 14.0% of the total sale of coffee drinks.  It is the data from 28 Feb. to 30 Mar. because the data for 31st is not available yet. (I counted in terms of cups, not the value because the prices is different anywhere)

I do not mean that it means something definitely, but maybe make some sense.

I would hear your comments about it, and if possible, any similar data from any other coffee shops.

Thanks in advance.

pstam: kaffalogo.jpg

 
Peter in Beijing
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pstam
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pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
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Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
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Posted Fri Apr 1, 2005, 8:59am
Subject: Re: One of the evidence to see the quality of your espresso!
 

If it is possible, I would like to hear the rough datas about the sale ratio, espresso comparing with the total coffee drinks so that we can get some idea from it.

pstam: kaffalogo.jpg

 
Peter in Beijing
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Worldman
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Worldman
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Posted Fri Apr 1, 2005, 4:29pm
Subject: Re: One of the evidence to see the quality of your espresso!
 

Peter,

I am sorry if I misunderstand you on this. Are you saying that in China your coffee service sells ~14% espresso vs. 86% non-espresso coffee drinks? Does the 86% include all other coffee drinks (american, press, cappaccino, latte, etc.)?

Len

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pstam
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pstam
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Posted Fri Apr 1, 2005, 9:03pm
Subject: Re: One of the evidence to see the quality of your espresso!
 

Len,

Yes, that is exactly.

Within 86% of other coffee drinks, we have not only the espresso based coffee drinks, but also the drip coffee, like local coffee planted in Yunnan province of China.

In fact, the most sold single item is the drip coffee.  Since that is more a restaurant than a bar, we provide a rather simple menu for our coffee service.  Even if we have more than three kinds of single origin beans for drip coffee, we sell one of them in that restaurant and bar.  But, each one in a different day.  And the drip coffee is the cheapest in our menu.

Following the drip coffee, we have the second most sold item is the caffe latte and cappuccino, as usual.  But the sales for espresso and similar drinks, like esp doppio and esp ristretto, is rather good.  I may get some more data about the total analysis for it.

BTW, there is no promotion in that restaurant at all because the owner does not like it.

Peter

pstam: kaffalogo.jpg

 
Peter in Beijing
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Dasein
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Posted Fri Apr 1, 2005, 10:59pm
Subject: Re: One of the evidence to see the quality of your espresso!
 

He means 14% of actual pure espresso.....
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Worldman
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Posted Sat Apr 2, 2005, 4:44am
Subject: Re: One of the evidence to see the quality of your espresso!
 

Peter,

You said:

From other post, I saw in some coffee shop, the sale of espresso is only about 2-3% of the total sale of coffee drinks.

This seems a surprisingly low amount of espresso (2%). I would imagine (and here I am only guessing) that even *$s sells more than 2% espresso.   hmmmm...on second thought: maybe that is right! If you stand for 1 hour in a busy Starbucks, how many espresso would you hear called vs. other drinks (e.g. "soya/non-fat/dopio/decaf/caramel/lattes con penna").

Do you have any idea where your espresso vs. non-espresso coffee stands vs. other espresso/coffee bars in China or Beijing?

Len

 
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pstam
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pstam
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Posted Sat Apr 2, 2005, 6:04am
Subject: Re: One of the evidence to see the quality of your espresso!
 

Worldman Said:

Do you have any idea where your espresso vs. non-espresso coffee stands vs. other espresso/coffee bars in China or Beijing?

Posted April 2, 2005 link


LEN,

That is the point.  I am trying to get some info about it.  First, I asked one of my students who is the key barista in abother coffee shop, not a restaurant, to give me some idea, or better the statistic data.

Once I have, I shall put it here.

For *$s in China, we of course do not have the data.  but, according to our knowledge, we noticed that most people there drink caffe latte, cappuccino, or more drink frappuccino.  Very very few people drink espresso.

In the same way to other coffee shops, we noticed that most people drink coke, or other soft drinks.  Few drink drip coffee.  Very seldom to drink espresso.  As I went there not for long time, I almost never saw people drink espresso, almost.

Today, I have got detailed data.  The following picture is the data and the graph.


Peter

pstam: kaffa_analysis.jpg
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Peter in Beijing
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pstam
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pstam
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Posted Sat Apr 2, 2005, 9:54am
Subject: Re: One of the evidence to see the quality of your espresso!
 

Dasein Said:

He means 14% of actual pure espresso.....

Posted April 1, 2005 link


This is right.  I think, I did not explain it well.  Sorry LEN, I did not see the point of your question.

BTW, I do not know how you described the learning curve but in that restaurant, I would like to repeat here again, those three baristas started to get trained from the begining of last December and finished in the begining of this January.  Till now, they had been working only about three months.  In fact, in those three months, they almost made the same quality of espresso and other coffee drinks.  This can be more important than the quality of their espresso.

Peter

pstam: kaffalogo.jpg

 
Peter in Beijing
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Everman
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Everman
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Posted Sun Apr 3, 2005, 12:06pm
Subject: Re: One of the evidence to see the quality of your espresso!
 

I believe one reason why few people will order a straight espresso is because they may not have had a good experiance with it in the past.  Most people I talk to think straight espresso must always taste terribly bitter and undrinkable.

If you want to increase sales in your own store where it really does taste good (I hope so), you need to work on better promotion/advertising. People who like it will order it again and tell their friends.
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pstam
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pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
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Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sun Apr 3, 2005, 12:13pm
Subject: Re: One of the evidence to see the quality of your espresso!
 

Everman Said:

If you want to increase sales in your own store where it really does taste good (I hope so), you need to work on better promotion/advertising. People who like it will order it again and tell their friends.

Posted April 3, 2005 link


Do you mean our sales of espresso is low?  I would know where you compare to with?

pstam: kaffalogo.jpg

 
Peter in Beijing
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http://www.kaffa.cn/
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I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
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