pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,302 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2005, 3:14am Subject: Re: 2005 World Barista Championship Full Results
There is a problem, indeed.
When I was talking with the organizer of the CBC for the North region fo China, we met a lady who do not know about coffee, but the arrangement for the activity. I, in fact, am not quite sure whether I should ask the chief of that organizer or not about the judgement standards, or rules.
The problem is,
In their book, it was read that the pump's pressure must be at 9.0 bar and so on. We are sure that we can make perfect coffee with 10.0 bar of the pump pressure. But in that case, should we be gaven a low score for that reason only. It means that the standard is the taste, or the procedure?
Can anyone explain it for me?
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2005, 6:13am Subject: Re: 2005 World Barista Championship Full Results
I believe the choice of a single brew temperature and pressure is logistical. The competitors use the same group of espresso machines. During competition, all machines are in continuous use, so tweaking the settings to suit a given competitor's blend would be very difficult and lengthen an already lengthy process. I know some roasters reformulate their signature blends specifically to the agreed-upon competition temperature settings. While it may not represent some competitors' notions of a perfect environment, part of a being a great barista is adaptation to less than ideal circumstances. So to answer your question directly ("It means that the standard is the taste, or the procedure?"), the competition weighs both the in-cup result (e.g., taste, appearance, appropriateness) and the means by which it is produced (e.g., technique, presentation).
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,302 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2005, 7:59am Subject: Re: 2005 World Barista Championship Full Results
HB Said:
I believe the choice of a single brew temperature and pressure is logistical. The competitors use the same group of espresso machines. During competition, all machines are in continuous use, so tweaking the settings to suit a given competitor's blend would be very difficult and lengthen an already lengthy process. I know some roasters reformulate their signature blends specifically to the agreed-upon competition temperature settings. While it may not represent some competitors' notions of a perfect environment, part of a being a great barista is adaptation to less than ideal circumstances. So to answer your question directly ("It means that the standard is the taste, or the procedure?"), the competition weighs both the in-cup result (e.g., taste, appearance, appropriateness) and the means by which it is produced (e.g., technique, presentation).
Does it mean that we may lose the game even if the taste of our espresso is perfect in case that we use 10.0 bar of pump pressure. If the taste is the most important, which should be our purpose, we should win the game. But, if we have to follow others requirements, we won't make it.
The required pressure is the conditions for necessary chemical transformation. If not, one cannot compensate it with other ways.
I suppose that the more important is the taste, but who judge?
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
espresso_yin Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2004 Posts: 174 Location: Chicago, IL Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Macap M4
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2005, 1:42pm Subject: Re: 2005 World Barista Championship Full Results
Peter, I agree with you if you are starting with the assumption that this competition is purely about espresso quality. But, as far as I can tell, it's not. It seems to me, as an outsider, that these competitions are an opportunity for extremely dedicated and enthusiastic baristas to get together, show their stuff, and celebrate the process of making espresso. Based on a post about the US championships (last year?) where it was said that Bronwen Serna produced the only good espresso, the actual quality of the coffee seems to me to be a minor concern.
Anyway, congrats to Sammy! I am a huge Caffe Artigiano fan and, like many others here, was pulling for him.
malachi Senior Member Joined: 5 May 2002 Posts: 1,761 Location: SFCA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Monster Mia (for now)_ Grinder: Monster Cimballi Junior Vac Pot: Not any more Drip: never Roaster: Ecco, Stumptown, Intelli,...
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2005, 3:06pm Subject: Re: 2005 World Barista Championship Full Results
peter, you're missing dan's point. they're not saying you cannot make espresso with anything other than 9BAR and they're not saying they will mark you down if you change the pressure. they're saying that, in order to make the competition possible they have standardized on one machine, one basket, one brew temp and one brew pressure. for logistical reasons, they do not allow you to change the pressure or the temp (there simply wouldn't be enough time to allow each barista to do so). if you were to change the pressure to 10BAR you would not recieve a poor score - you would be disqualified. this is not an espresso decision but rather a practical decision.
so... you just have to tweak your espresso to work best at the specified temp and pressure. not that hard.
GongfuCoffee Senior Member Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Posts: 11 Location: Chengdu, China Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2005, 8:42pm Subject: Re: 2005 World Barista Championship Full Results
Peter, I think there is no absolute rule in espresso world, and even though taste is very important, it is quite variable because of individual experience.
This month I had a view on 2005's CBC in Shanghai and learnt a lot. It is worthy to send my barista to attend the future competition.
onocoffee Senior Member Joined: 5 Sep 2002 Posts: 733 Location: Towson, Maryland Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: La Marzocco Linea 2AV, 3AV &... Grinder: 4 Mazzer Major Autos, Compak... Vac Pot: That crazy Bodum eSantos Drip: Bunn CWT Twin, Bunn Water... Roaster: Petroncini The Crumb
Posted Tue Apr 19, 2005, 9:18pm Subject: Re: 2005 World Barista Championship Full Results
Peter- Yes, if you change the machine pressure, temperature, or otherwise make any sort of modifications to your competition machine, you will be DISQUALIFIED.
Your coffee may work best at 10bar, your coffee may brew best at 207.3F, but the machines are set for 9bar and 200F (give or take a degree or two). You will have to learn to deal with the situation. Meaning you may need to formulate a blend that will take advantage of the competition parameters.
Further, I am one who takes the position that if ANYONE from your "team" or country changes the parameters of a competition machine in ANY WAY, the competitor should be DISQUALIFIED, and the offending team member BARRED from the WBC for NO LESS than TEN YEARS.
And should a person make the same offense twice, that person should be BARRED FOR LIFE from the WBC and their national competitions.
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