espressoDOM Senior Member Joined: 1 May 2003 Posts: 2,189 Location: Bay Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: WEGA Lyra (vibe) Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: (no more coffee equipment) Drip: French Press Roaster: Hot Top Roaster; Fresh Roast...
Posted Thu Aug 28, 2003, 12:35pm Subject: Questions to Ask (for Trips 2 the Counter)
I am asking the enlightened geeks of this forum what questions they ask when they go to a new cafe, coffee shop, or roaster,etc. I am going to start keeping track of the places I visit on my way to good espresso in the Bay Area and beyond. I know you can't go wrong with Black Cat and Vivace...etc.. but what about the great places in my neck of the woods. So I am going to post a thread in the West and keep track of my many misadventures in coffee.
I normally ask where they get there beans or do they keep track of when the beans were rosted....stuff like that... but the blank stares....in most cases lead me to believe that I need to educate myself on the questions to ask..... HELP me tweak my approach to coffeshop espresso. I always order a double espresso or a espresso con panna because i want to drink the espresso pretty close to straight because it gives me an idea of the beans if I decide to buy a half a pound or a pound...but know what to ask is an important aspect to the journey. Again any help would be appreciated
DOM...evil genius ...Up to no good in espresso at all times... VIVA la parts de Espresso
Beto Senior Member Joined: 18 Nov 2002 Posts: 111 Location: Maryland Expertise: Pro Roaster
Espresso: Linea 2AV Grinder: Major Drip: Chemex Roaster: Ambex YM15
Posted Thu Aug 28, 2003, 1:23pm Subject: Re: Questions to Ask (for Trips 2 the Counter)
I always find that if I take a good look around the place and see how the barista works, it tells me 5 times the information that I would get by asking a question.
I can't tell you how many times I've received the answer, "The best in town!" when I've asked how their espresso is. Sometimes it was good, mostly it was utter dreck.
If I watch them work and it seems that they know what they are doing, I'll order something and ask a few questions. By judging the quality of the cup, I don't need to be told how fresh their beans are.
espressoDOM Senior Member Joined: 1 May 2003 Posts: 2,189 Location: Bay Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: WEGA Lyra (vibe) Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: (no more coffee equipment) Drip: French Press Roaster: Hot Top Roaster; Fresh Roast...
Posted Thu Aug 28, 2003, 4:39pm Subject: Re: Questions to Ask (for Trips 2 the Counter)
Beto Said:
I always find that if I take a good look around the place and see how the barista works, it tells me 5 times the information that I would get by asking a question.
By judging the quality of the cup, I don't need to be told how fresh their beans are.
Good point....BUT with a lack of questions or tell tale signs of a good coffee shop I am flying blind. Case in point... you enter the coffee shop... see the La Pavoni sitting behind the counter... coffee bins everywhere.... cool little coffee spot.... one person makin' drinks behind the bar. See most espresso type drinks.... all I can do is order a drink to see what I am getting..... but how do I know if I want to buy those beans if I don't ask questions... and if I don't know what answers to look for .... then I get snookered into buying...CRAP...hahaha..... bitter ... a little... The tour begins after Labor Day.... wish me luck
DOM...evil genius ...Up to no good in espresso at all times... VIVA la parts de Espresso
e53er Senior Member Joined: 21 Apr 2002 Posts: 141 Location: L.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: NS Oscar, Solis SL90 Grinder: Mazzer Mini, Solis Maestro Vac Pot: Bodum Santos Drip: KMB, Presto Scandi, pourover Roaster: Poppery II
Posted Fri Aug 29, 2003, 10:01am Subject: Re: Questions to Ask (for Trips 2 the Counter)
Been there, done that. You don't need to educate yourself on the proper questions to ask. A blank stare, as if you are from another planet, or a pained expression in response to simple questions such as roast dates or bean source, could be a tipoff of their attitude towards the coffee they make and/or roast...or, more likely, it could simply be the indifference of the person you're asking. If they roast their own, you may want to talk directly to the roaster to get some idea. A straight shot might give some indication of the bean's characteristics, but chances are you'll make a better one. Why waste your money on a double.
If the beans are fairly fresh and everything else seems promising, I buy 1/2 lb. or less if possible, try them out, and chalk it up to experience regardless of the outcome.
I've tried quite a few places in the Bay Area when I lived there and have pretty much given up. Sure, I've made occasional trips to Peet's and Graffeo. Mostly, I get them through the usual mail order suspects. Not yet ready to do my own roasting.
espressoDOM Senior Member Joined: 1 May 2003 Posts: 2,189 Location: Bay Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: WEGA Lyra (vibe) Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: (no more coffee equipment) Drip: French Press Roaster: Hot Top Roaster; Fresh Roast...
Posted Fri Aug 29, 2003, 1:58pm Subject: Re: Questions to Ask (for Trips 2 the Counter)
Blank stares or strange expressions are usually a give away that something strange may be afoot at the Cirle K....if ya know what I mean....
The Bay Area has to have some great places.... I have heard of about 5 I am definitely going to try... just out of the quick trip range.... Most of them are actually 20-30 minutes away from the house....so I set out to make it an adventure....
I disagree on the tasting the coffee... when you order something it allows you to watch...if they are good you learn something if they are bad.... oh well you are out 2 bucks.... and that is that...
I am really interested in what people think about how to feel out a new coffe shop... I know latte drinkers should have a different response from the straight up drinkers... and straight coffee hounds are probably not going to run into the same problems getting consistency in the cup..... thoughts anyone
DOM...evil genius ...Up to no good in espresso at all times... VIVA la parts de Espresso
Posted Sat Aug 30, 2003, 6:16am Subject: Re: Questions to Ask (for Trips 2 the Counter)
In Austin, there is a shop that is long on attitude, ya can't tell them a thing. A clue to their quality is when you see the portafilters sitting on the drip tray instead of on the group head. They just don't get it and they don't get my business.
Another shop has one of the best espresso blends but can't pull a shot that shows off their blend. They blend and roast a fatastic espresso. I buy it and pull far better shots at home than they can ever do.
Point is that I can't always judge the blend by the appearance of the shop or by the barista's knowledge.
espressoDOM Senior Member Joined: 1 May 2003 Posts: 2,189 Location: Bay Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: WEGA Lyra (vibe) Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: (no more coffee equipment) Drip: French Press Roaster: Hot Top Roaster; Fresh Roast...
Posted Sat Aug 30, 2003, 12:44pm Subject: Re: Questions to Ask (for Trips 2 the Counter)
you make a valid point.... but in essence what I am hearing you say is that buying coffee without some word of mouth is a crap shoot.... I walk into coffeeshop A.... barist knows squat about coffee tries to make me esresso...it sucks so I don't buy beans.... or ... I buy beans and find out when I get home...these beans rock....un un.... not gonna happen my friend.... at 6-10 bucks a pop... that is an expensive iterative process.... i am getting disgusted quickly with local coffee houses pretty quickly as I look for a local roaster to call home. I am ordering some Black Cat after labor day...supporting Chicago.... I will order some Stumptown after I settle up with them over my bill... again supporting Portland... I need some Bay Area outlets.... so I can enjoy the coffee experience in my neck of the woods. I am embarking on my little journey around the bay to kind of map out where to go and where to let sleeping dogs lie.... i got your point though and in many ways it is a valid one.....
DOM...evil genius ...Up to no good in espresso at all times... VIVA la parts de Espresso
e53er Senior Member Joined: 21 Apr 2002 Posts: 141 Location: L.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: NS Oscar, Solis SL90 Grinder: Mazzer Mini, Solis Maestro Vac Pot: Bodum Santos Drip: KMB, Presto Scandi, pourover Roaster: Poppery II
Posted Sat Aug 30, 2003, 9:46pm Subject: Re: Questions to Ask (for Trips 2 the Counter)
What part of the Bay Area are you located in? Maybe some of us have been to places on your list and could let you know what we think of them before you waste your six bucks. I've sampled quite a few microroasters around here and am not terribly impressed with the beans when compared with the mail order big leaguers, but they're alright and at least you know their roasting schedules.
e53er Senior Member Joined: 21 Apr 2002 Posts: 141 Location: L.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: NS Oscar, Solis SL90 Grinder: Mazzer Mini, Solis Maestro Vac Pot: Bodum Santos Drip: KMB, Presto Scandi, pourover Roaster: Poppery II
Posted Sun Aug 31, 2003, 10:53pm Subject: Re: Questions to Ask (for Trips 2 the Counter)
espressoDOM Said:
I am in the East Bay..... I am 25 minutes from San Jose I am 25 minutes from Berkeley I am 40 minutes from SF
Well, that certainly puts you smack in the middle of nowhere. Have you considered moving :-).
In your other thread on Peet's, I suggested Peter James in San Leandro. Check out www.peterjamescoffee.com. Might be worth a try. Otherwise, I think you're stuck with going to Berkeley or SF. Further south there are roasters in Fremont, Mountain View and Willow Glen. They're somewhat out of range for you, though.
Well I look forward to your trip report, wherever you plan to try.
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