(to see the image in question, click calendar, and click the white cover with the woman who looks like she's wearing a bathing suit)
Now....
Several people found this offensive at a recent trade show when a Lavazza booth had a large (and not so large) picture of this woman, in the booth.
And I agree with them.... in THAT context.
I happen to think that photo is extremely artistic and beautiful. I also think some (not all) of the other photos are equally artistic - the dude with the dinosaur look, the African notes of two of the photos, I think creatively and stylistically, those images were running on all cylinders.
I'm not a prude by any stretch - just ask my friends :)
S why do I agree with the people who were offended? I don't necessarily agree with what offended them - the entire Lavazza campaign is artistic glamour, not sexist - I don't think most of the offended parties would see it that way (ie, they do think it's sexist).
But unlike other trade shows (for instance, comic shows, car shows, or some of the bigger high tech shows that feature software), the coffee industry shows have been very low-key (even non-existant) in the use of the "pretty booth girl dressed in nothing". Coffee also has many "women in coffee" issues that are ongoing.
At SCAA Boston, seeing this kind of poster, or a booth girl is something that would cause a major freak out. And I have to admit, I like the fact that there's no skin at the coffee shows - I've been to my share of trade shows where there's heaps of women bursting out of tiny bikinis. I also admit frankly that as a male, part of my brain enjoys that - but coffee's a close and dear passion to me, and I think using sex in this way cheapens the thing I'm passionate about.
Maybe that's hypocrisy, I don't know.
At CoffeeFest Seattle, there was this poor girl... she looked so severely out of place - at some Hawaiian themed frozen slushie booth. She was dressed like a hula girl, handing out samples. She looked entirely uncomfortable the entire weekend - both Aaron and I noticed this - and the guys running the booth seemed to have an air of letchery. And the Lavazza poster was scaled down some (previously, I'd seen it in a much larger version), but it too seemed out of place.
Anyway, I don't know where I'm going with this, other than to wrap up with this.
a) I think combining artistic use of the human body and espresso or coffee can be a good thing - espresso IS artistry to me, and as a photographer, I can appreciate glamour photos as artistry. I also believe the human body is not something to be hidden or ashamed of.
b) I give some credit to Lavazza for doing what is a very artistic calendar featuring artistic photography with an espresso theme. They could have gone the "repair garage route" and just gotten off the shelf soft-core nudes, but instead commissioned some rather famous photographers to stage and take the photos.
c) that all said, I think booth girls and these photos, esp. in a big poster size, have no place in coffee business trade shows.
sjames Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 464 Location: Melbourne, Australia Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: Expobar eb-61 Office Leva Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: Unibuy Syphon Drip: Are you talking to me????? Roaster: Peter Wolff - Veneziano
Posted Fri Nov 28, 2003, 6:59am Subject: Re: Espresso and the Spoon Lady
Mark,
I have never been to a trade show. I can only imagine that they look something like this:
- Held in large/humungous exhibition centre. - Most stalls look the same/similar. - Lots of “Suits” and bad ties. - Exhibitors with that “Pleeeeeeeease come and talk to me - I have to do this for the next zillion hours!” smile. - Reeeeeeeeally bad acoustics (with/without cheesy muzak!) - Some excellent new products that make it exciting and give you something new to dream about and other exhibitors that “In your face!” attitude. - Some excellent well established products that remind you of the dreams you still haven’t fulfilled and reminds other exhibitors “Who’s still da Boss?!” - Some other products that are great because..... because.... because..... ummmmmm......because they make up the numbers that justify the cost of the exhibition centre.
I assume:
- The people who attend trade shows are in the trade. - The point of a trade show is to promote products and/or services. - People buy those products/services based on product quality, price and IMAGE(That’s with neon lights and fanfare!)
Now my wife will tell you that I’m no prude and I’m far from being a testosterone driven maniac. (She’ll also tell you that my devil’s advocacy borders on the ridiculous.) So now that I’ve had my fun, my question to those who are/would be offended by the poster is: Why are “Artistic” images of attractive women and/or men inappropriate at a trade show? I say bring on the “Pizzazz”, because in my mind’s eye, trade shows need it ....... DEPERATELY!!! From what I’ve seen of Lavazza’s promotional material in the past, they promote themselves as a “Sexy”, “Cool” and “Sophisticated” coffee company (not that I subscribe to it /condone it or buy their product). Surely they would want to promote that at a trade show in order to atttract clients who want to be part of that image? It’s no more appropriate/inappropriate at a trade show than it is on a bus shelter or billboard. But that’s another discussion.
onocoffee Senior Member Joined: 5 Sep 2002 Posts: 729 Location: Towson, Maryland Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: La Marzocco Linea 2AV, 3AV &... Grinder: 4 Mazzer Major Autos, Compak... Vac Pot: That crazy Bodum eSantos Drip: Bunn CWT Twin, Bunn Water... Roaster: Petroncini The Crumb
Posted Fri Nov 28, 2003, 2:00pm Subject: Re: Espresso and the Spoon Lady
Sex cheapens what we are passionate about....
I had to think about that for a moment. And I think I disagree.
When we comment that "sex" cheapens something are we allowing some strange and vague puritanical sensibility to color our minds? I attended SCAA Boston and, to be honest, really do not recall seeing the spoon lady in spite of the fact that the poster was huge. Quite frankly, I was too in love with the beauties from Guatemala or whatever Central American country had their beauty contest winners on the second floor and kept trying to figure out a way to speak Spanish and pose as a green bean buyer.
Lavazza's campaign certainly is cutting edge with a serious flash of Euro flair but I hardly find it offensive. It's sexy, certainly. But it's not offensive or even sexual in context. There's no writhing bodies, sweating next to the afterburner or the dribbling of hot beans down the chest into a waiting mouth - now that would be sexual!
Their campaign is new, fresh and very different than the stodgy old school and this kind of change will always cause some level of controversy and consternation. That's normal and, for many, that change to something new will be difficult. Much like the difficulty that some in the industry are having towards this new so-called Third Wave. But the fact that this kind of edgy campaign is being done by one of the old coffee companies is quite impressive.
This all kinda reminds me of the cigar industry where old, stodgy companies have ruled for generations and there are now new companies that are pushing the edge and working a trend and even an old line company that is starting to get edgy as their younger generation begins to take the helm. And in my book, that's a good thing.
Now, I did not attend CF Seattle but a girl standing there in a hula outfit just sounds like cheese.
sjames Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 464 Location: Melbourne, Australia Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: Expobar eb-61 Office Leva Grinder: Mazzer Mini Vac Pot: Unibuy Syphon Drip: Are you talking to me????? Roaster: Peter Wolff - Veneziano
Posted Fri Nov 28, 2003, 5:32pm Subject: Re: Espresso and the Spoon Lady
At CoffeeFest Seattle, there was this poor girl... she looked so severely out of place - at some Hawaiian themed frozen slushie booth. She was dressed like a hula girl, handing out samples. She looked entirely uncomfortable the entire weekend - both Aaron and I noticed this - and the guys running the booth seemed to have an air of letchery.
Hmmmmm, Well I guess those guys were living the lecherous dream. Again, it's about image. Wheteher you like it or not, people love that sort of image and, quite frankly, I'd want to see that at a trade show. I want to know who not to do business with. I can't stand cheese!
johannabanana Senior Member Joined: 13 Jul 2003 Posts: 431 Location: Vienna, Europe Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La San Marco 1,2,+3group,... Grinder: 2 LSM, 3 Tourmix, 1 demoka... Vac Pot: not yet Drip: Melitta aroma boy,... Roaster: Precision & Mr. Gunter :-D
Posted Sat Nov 29, 2003, 6:59am Subject: Re: Espresso and the Spoon Lady
I want to add my 2cents...
As an advertiser, I should say: Careful with sex and advertising! Sex is still something "a bit dirty" in the mind of most people (not in a bad way). So it makes sence to make sexy advertising with related products. Cars are also presented with sexy ladies on a car show, but here it's not only the "look what women you can have when you by this car" thing - a womans body is also a synonym for "beautiful design" which works well with the design of the cars. But you should never use sex in an ad for something clean, or food, like cereals or detergent, or a bank account...
But this is just the overall view on that theme.
I like the calendar of Lavazza. This is art! Wonderful. Here I see the design of the cups and spoons, and therefore the connection with a "designed" body. It's not advertising for coffee. It's just a prestige object for the company - saying - we like art, we are open minded, we like beautiful things... so what? As long as they don't show a naked lady in a cup of coffee at the show... ;-)
Here is a picture from SIC, Milano. Brasilia used these "auto-ladies" to get some attention. I think that looked cheap. But I have to say they cought my attention, but that didn't make me feel good about the product. My thought was rather "uh, look what they have to do to get some attention".
Joey
(Click for larger image)
"Do everything right. You will gratify some people and astonish the rest." (Mark Twain)
Posted Sat Nov 29, 2003, 7:38am Subject: Re: Espresso and the Spoon Lady
Images sell product. This has been proven time and again. This can be done as a high-impact, immediate result endeavour or as a more subtle product placement campaign. There is also a long tradition of companies allowing a little more leeway when it comes to the annual calendar. These can become as collectable as Illy cups from an "artistic" point of view... Pirelli comes to mind (interesting... Pirelli, Lavazza, Illy... maybe we've got an Italian thing going on here?).
Things become very subjective here. Personally, I really don't like the Lavazza spoon lady... but that's just my opinion. This year's Lavazza calendar is a little too brash. Using product-related items to cover significant body-parts is a little too "schoolboy" for my taste. Now, looking back at the previous year's calendars we have some far more sensual images (classic Helmut Newton etc). I'm really glad this thead appeared, if only to point me at those images!
Bottom line... sexuality sells, and we can't change that. Rules need to be in place so that lines aren't crossed. None of those lines have been crossed here (no plain wrapper required). The producers and maunufacturers want to get their product out to the public in a positive light... Lavazza's approach obviously works, whether we like it or not.
Of course, I am totally ignoring the arguement regarding society's exploitation of the female form and the reinforcement of out-dated (or non-politically correct) stereotypes. That's a discussion for another forum I think :)
Cheers peter p.s. I just asked my partner what her opinion was about all of this. She's sitting in the kitchen leafing through a Victoria's Secret catalogue... "It's fantasy... it's just eye-candy, isn't it"
I would say "sex engenders attention" but it doesn't sell because it's there. Sometimes the ad is so stupid because there is no reason for sex - it makes me not want the product. But it got my attention. For example we had a very stupid ad on TV: The man told the woman about the new bank account he opend, with good interests, on the mobile phone. While she was sitting in the train, listening to the numbers of interests, she got an Orgasm and slid almost from the seat. Wow, that bank made me change my opinion about them. In a bad way.
bish Said:
Rules need to be in place so that lines aren't crossed.
As advertising is an art - there should not be rules. The ones missusing pictures or themes, won't sell their product anyhow. (as in the example above) You can't set rules of taste. In the US people are much more prude than Europeans. At least everybody says to be. Behind doors the pictures are sometimes different. But that also would be another thread ;-)
Everyone has a different border to his/her feelings. That's why a company should make good research first, before they "talk" to their target group. Coke made the right move with the diet coke man as a delivery boy. You wanna see that good looking fella? Buy diet coke. Why didn't they use a naked woman? Because mostly women drink diet coke. Homework well done.
Joey :-)
PS.: Advertising means "persuading"...and persuading is an art. (in Austria "persuasiveness" is translated with "persuasive art") That's why I said befor, I think advertising is an art!
"Do everything right. You will gratify some people and astonish the rest." (Mark Twain)
Posted Sat Nov 29, 2003, 9:44am Subject: Re: Espresso and the Spoon Lady
johannabanana Said:
As advertising is an art - there should not be rules. The ones missusing pictures or themes, won't sell their product anyhow. (as in the example above) You can't set rules of taste. In the US people are much more prude than Europeans. At least everybody says to be. Behind doors the pictures are sometimes different. But that also would be another thread ;-)
I agree that image misuse will have a negative effect on sales, and as such will be self-regulating. As a European I also agree that Americans (in general) feel more pressure from the "moral majority" or so-called Bible Belt fundamentalism. When a recent Calvin Klein advertising campaign was deemed too far over the edge with its sensuality, it even provoked Presidential comments! The rules I refer too are more to do with stepping over the line between sexuality/sensuality and pornography.
What is appropriate? I would certainly have the same reaction as yourself when someone tried to sell me a bank account with orgasmic imagery. Is coffee a sensual pleasure in keeping with the Helmut Newton pictures? Maybe... it's debatable. A bikini made of coffee spoons? Again... debatable.
Joey, I'm an ex-pat Brit living in New York. Unlike most Brits, I don't consider the rest of Europe as that bit of mainland off our coast :) I've spent a lot of time travelling since I was quite young (airline brat), and have spent a lot of time in Scandinavia (mostly Norway), lived for five months in The Netherlands and spent extended time in Portugal. I've only managed a couple of quick trips to Austria though.
It was through this extensive travelling that I developed less of an "islander" mentality, and a far broader culinary horizon. My first espresso was in Rome when I was far too young to appreciate it :) My first Turkish was in Instanbul where I was certain they were trying to poison me... or was it because I didn't think and drained the cup :)
I still crave a good British sausage though... and a good cup of tea :)
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