Posted Fri Nov 6, 2009, 12:42pm Subject: Sour Shots any advice?
I am having trouble with sourness in my shots. Every once and a while I get a good shot that is nice and sweet, but most of the time I get sour shots that are unpalatable with a great crema. I am using a Rancilio Silvia and Cunill Tranquilo with pulls lasting about 20-27 seconds for a full double with no blonding. Occasionally, I get some blonding around 15 seconds and stop it there. Also, every once and a while my pucks come out with a slight pool of water on top - not sure why.
From what I understand the sour flavor I taste (distinctly sour, not bitter) can come from under extraction? So it is between channeling, low temp and/or possible to course a grind, I think? Any tips on how to narrow the field and get rid of it? I am still pretty new to this and am thinking that I should focus on dosing, but haven't really found a good solution. I have also heard the Silvia has some temp issues so I heat it up, let the light turn off, get everything ready and let it cycle through the heating process again until it peaks then I go. In other words, at the peak of the second cycle, when the indicator light goes off, I pull the shot.
I am using Klatch 2008 Comp beans roasted 10/26 right now.
tastebuds Senior Member Joined: 5 Aug 2009 Posts: 31 Location: USA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009, 4:24pm Subject: Re: Sour Shots any advice?
It's possibly the beans and the darkness of roast used. Some are more acidic than others.
With my Silvia, when the temperature light goes off (indicating ready to brew), I do 1 sec flush to let out some steam before putting the porta filter as shown on this video. It does reduce the sharpness in flavor little bit. Try that if you haven't.
Posted Sat Nov 7, 2009, 6:46pm Subject: Re: Sour Shots any advice?
avaserfi Said:
I am having trouble with sourness in my shots. Every once and a while I get a good shot that is nice and sweet, but most of the time I get sour shots that are unpalatable with a great crema....
...From what I understand the sour flavor I taste (distinctly sour, not bitter) can come from under extraction? So it is between channeling, low temp and/or possible to course a grind, I think? Any tips on how to narrow the field and get rid of it?
Pulling a "longer" shot (ie, more liquid per given dose of dry coffee) may cure your underextraction problem and make better-tasting shots. Don't be afraid of blonding -- a little blonde (in moderation) never hurt anyone. ;-)
Do you have a gram scale? Weigh the initial dry coffee dose and also weigh the finished espresso beverage. If your coffee is evenly distributed in the portafilter basket, the beverage can weigh 2x the dry dose if necessary to reduce sourness.
Another thing to try is switching baskets. Baskets with holes that are partially blocked or too small produce sour shots.
-Andy S picture page: http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,121 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sun Nov 8, 2009, 3:19am Subject: Re: Sour Shots any advice?
avaserfi Said:
I am having trouble with sourness in my shots. Every once and a while I get a good shot that is nice and sweet, but most of the time I get sour shots that are unpalatable with a great crema. I am using a Rancilio Silvia and Cunill Tranquilo with pulls lasting about 20-27 seconds for a full double with no blonding. Occasionally, I get some blonding around 15 seconds and stop it there. Also, every once and a while my pucks come out with a slight pool of water on top - not sure why.
From what I understand the sour flavor I taste (distinctly sour, not bitter) can come from under extraction? So it is between channeling, low temp and/or possible to course a grind, I think? Any tips on how to narrow the field and get rid of it? I am still pretty new to this and am thinking that I should focus on dosing, but haven't really found a good solution. I have also heard the Silvia has some temp issues so I heat it up, let the light turn off, get everything ready and let it cycle through the heating process again until it peaks then I go. In other words, at the peak of the second cycle, when the indicator light goes off, I pull the shot.
I am using Klatch 2008 Comp beans roasted 10/26 right now.
Your understanding is right. If you ever had nice tastes of your shot, the problem can be only from the technique. Not the beans, not the machine, not the grinder. Take care of the dosage, and keep it same for every time. Of cource, avoid of channelling every times. I think you can handle it.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
Posted Mon Nov 9, 2009, 9:59pm Subject: Re: Sour Shots any advice?
Where did you get the beans from? It is possible to get sour flavors from under-roasted beans. If they haven't gone all the way through 1st crack they can have sort of an earthy, grassy flavor to them.
Weasel Senior Member Joined: 29 May 2007 Posts: 74 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Nov 10, 2009, 9:49am Subject: Re: Sour Shots any advice?
I have found that 'sour' can mean different things. The 'sour' that I found unpalatable was from too high a brew temp. Your technique also suggests that might be the case (waiting til the end of the heating cycle).
Try warming up the machine for 20 minutes before brewing, and do a flush before running your shot. If the grouphead is emitting a sputtering steam, it is too hot. Flush until the steam stops and the flow appears 'relaxed'. Now pull the shot.
You may also have channeling. Blonding at 15 sec seems to indicate that. When tamping, take care to tend to the edge of the puck. I find this very helpful. Do you have a good tamper?
Although not necessary, the Synesso ridgeless double filter baskets can improve the quality and consistency of your shots. Check 'em out:
Posted Tue Nov 10, 2009, 1:46pm Subject: Re: Sour Shots any advice?
Thanks for all the tips. I am working on narrowing the issue down. I think part of the problem was water heat, I have started bringing the Silvia up to heat then running it for about 15-30 seconds, until all the steam is gone. This has greatly reduced the sour off flavor. Now I just need to bring my dosing and tamping up to par. I am currently using this tamper: Click Here (cgi.ebay.com)
As I said in my initial post, I am using 2008 Comp beans roasted 10/26 right now.
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