daktarz Senior Member Joined: 3 Jan 2004 Posts: 298 Location: Bay Area, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Rituale Grinder: Mazzer Mini Drip: umm French Press? Roaster: Does an outdoor smoker...
Posted Tue Jun 1, 2004, 4:36pm Subject: There are thermometers and then there are thermometers!
Thought I'd pass along an observation I just made. I recently mentioned that the thermometer had been unhelpful in my latte making. Well, I decided to do a test, something I hadn't done previously (silly me) and so I prepared cups with different temperature water and then plunked my dial thermometer as well as my digital readout barbeque thermometer into them. Huge, huge difference. The digital basically snapped to the correct temp in essentially zero time while the dial thermometer was slowwwww. They both eventually got to the same temp but the lag in the dial thermometer was quite large. I did the test with two different dial thermometers and got the same, poor, results.
Next I did something new for me and steamed milk up to a particular temperature and then, rather than making the drink, waited to see what the thermometer would do. I'd previously thought that I'd reached the "correct" temp because the thermometer stopped its rapid climb when I turned off the steam. Wrong conclusion. When I just stood around and waited the thermometer began to move again and moved a lot. I extended the experiment as well by plunking in the digital thermometer in the milk which was being assessed at 120 degrees by the dial thermometer. Mr. Digital disagreed to the extent of reading 152 degrees, a result that the dial thermometer eventually got around to reading.
So what I'd really like is a digital thermometer that clips on the side of the pitcher, just as the dial ones do. I plan to check around for one but thought I'd pass on the observation of how VERY slow the dial units react. It should be noted that I'm only steaming 3 oz of milk at a time so a response time as slow as I'm seeing is essentially the kiss of death for usable temperature feedback.
Posted Wed Jun 2, 2004, 7:07am Subject: Steaming milk with a thermometer
daktarz Said:
Thought I'd pass along an observation I just made. I recently mentioned that the thermometer had been unhelpful in my latte making. Well, I decided to do a test, something I hadn't done previously (silly me) and so I prepared cups with different temperature water and then plunked my dial thermometer as well as my digital readout barbeque thermometer into them. Huge, huge difference. The digital basically snapped to the correct temp in essentially zero time while the dial thermometer was slowwwww. They both eventually got to the same temp but the lag in the dial thermometer was quite large. I did the test with two different dial thermometers and got the same, poor, results.
Next I did something new for me and steamed milk up to a particular temperature and then, rather than making the drink, waited to see what the thermometer would do. I'd previously thought that I'd reached the "correct" temp because the thermometer stopped its rapid climb when I turned off the steam. Wrong conclusion. When I just stood around and waited the thermometer began to move again and moved a lot. I extended the experiment as well by plunking in the digital thermometer in the milk which was being assessed at 120 degrees by the dial thermometer. Mr. Digital disagreed to the extent of reading 152 degrees, a result that the dial thermometer eventually got around to reading.
So what I'd really like is a digital thermometer that clips on the side of the pitcher, just as the dial ones do. I plan to check around for one but thought I'd pass on the observation of how VERY slow the dial units react. It should be noted that I'm only steaming 3 oz of milk at a time so a response time as slow as I'm seeing is essentially the kiss of death for usable temperature feedback.
Thought I'd add a second to the above. I put my thermocouple in the milk pitcher along with the steaming thermometer. The k-probe tc is connected to a digital thermometer. I stopped steaming when the temperature indicated 155 on the digital. It read 120 on the steaming thermometer and hadn't reached 140 (although it was climbing) by the time I had poured the milk.
I have been overheating my milk drinks. I wondered why I was getting blisters when others proclaimed that they kept their hand on the pitcher to determine when to stop. Maybe my poor latte art attempts will improve now that I am heating the milk to the correct temperature
daktarz Senior Member Joined: 3 Jan 2004 Posts: 298 Location: Bay Area, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Isomac Rituale Grinder: Mazzer Mini Drip: umm French Press? Roaster: Does an outdoor smoker...
Posted Wed Jun 2, 2004, 7:25am Subject: Re: Steaming milk with a thermometer
Absolutely! Although it took some manipulation, I managed to get my digital BBQ thermometer in my milk along with a hand on the bottom of the pitcher and a dial thermometer stuck in as well. Same results as you. The dial is just completely behind the curve and now I know I was overheating the milk at the end, leading to the cap of white on the cup, when I had been going to 150 degrees. This also explains why I was getting latte art by stopping at 120 degrees - because it really WASN'T 120 degrees - it was just the slow dial thermometer which was misleading me.
FYI... Williams-Sonoma sells a similar model for the same price but it has a "calibration" button so you can tune it up / down. One small caveat -- it has a delayed refresh of a few seconds to keep the reading steady. That makes it ideal for doing quick calibrations of HX temperatures since the numbers don't bounce around meaninglessly as many TCs do, but subquently it's always a little behind a changing temperature. Still, it reacts as fast or faster than any of the dial thermometers that I've used. The owner's manual explains a little more about its design, if anyone's interested...
cremaboy Senior Member Joined: 23 Feb 2004 Posts: 119 Location: So. California Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Solis SL70 Grinder: Solis Maestro Plus Vac Pot: None Drip: Kitchenaid Pro 12 Roaster: Peerless Coffee
Posted Wed Jun 2, 2004, 2:34pm Subject: Re: Steaming milk with a thermometer
A couple of general comments on thermometers IIM--
Most manufacturers have more than one product line. Taylor is a well respected product but has an economy line which you're likely to find at a housewares store.
Calibration is a good feature if you have a good standard to calibrate with. Ice water and boiling water are handy but not always accurate. One good standard is a lab grade mercury filled thermometer with 0.1 degree C accuracy. These are hard to come by (even before 9/11). Lab supply companies are reluctant to sell to individuals for obvious reasons.
Another is to buy your thermometer from a vendor who can supply a NIST certificate (extra cost). This certificate ensures that a qualified metrologist has calibrated your thermometer and it should be good for a year.
There's no inherent difference in accuracy between a digital and analog thermometer. Fast response time is a function of construction and CAN be achieved with either.
A supplier of good dial thermometers for milk frothing and other coffeegeek applications is Mannix.
I don't have their URL handy but just google them.
Posted Thu Jun 3, 2004, 5:20pm Subject: Re: Steaming milk with a thermometer
It is important to know your equipment. As a result of this thread I experimented a bit. The attached photo shows that the Digital with K Probe and the small thermomter agree fairly well (the small thermometer has an unacceptable lag though). The large thermometer just never read the same as the other two. I was using the larger thermometer but it is going into the trash now.
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