calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Sep 19, 2011, 8:40am Subject: Am I over the edge and in the deep end???
Over the weekend, I was fooling around in the kitchen and looked around. It struck me on how much "stuff" I had for coffee, just in the kitchen! This does not count the single and two group espresso machines in the shop. Neither does it count the 3 drip machines (a 5 pot bunn commercial, a 2 pot Newco and a Bunn VPR-APS 2l air pot brewer) or the grinder, airpot brewer and espresso machine at work!
I think I need help, serious help!
This pic shows most of the grinders that are on the counter up to my espresso machine.
(Click for larger image)
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Sep 19, 2011, 8:43am Subject: Re: Am I over the edge and in the deep end???
This one looks around to the right, showing the syrups, dispensors, and other brewing methods and a bulk grinder, my travel grinder, vac pot, aeropress, temp logger etc!
Again, this is just what was in the kitchen!
(Click for larger image)
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Posted Mon Sep 19, 2011, 9:38am Subject: Re: Am I over the edge and in the deep end???
calblacksmith Said:
Over the weekend, I was fooling around in the kitchen and looked around. It struck me on how much "stuff" I had for coffee, just in the kitchen! This does not count the single and two group espresso machines in the shop. Neither does it count the 3 drip machines (a 5 pot bunn commercial, a 2 pot Newco and a Bunn VPR-APS 2l air pot brewer) or the grinder, airpot brewer and espresso machine at work!
I think I need help, serious help!
This pic shows most of the grinders that are on the counter up to my espresso machine.
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674
Posted Mon Sep 19, 2011, 10:15am Subject: Re: Am I over the edge and in the deep end???
Holy Starbucks, that's a lot of grinders!
Please tell me that includes the ones you're not allowed to "flip" from the auctions? Otherwise...what ARE you using them all for? I think someone may be a good candidate for a Versalab (or at least a K10 or Robur) to single dose with!)
I have to say, I'm loving the commercial sauce dispensers though.... where's the big Hobart? :)
Technically I'm not much better than you, I did some rearranging over the weekend for the new Duetto. The Salvatore's presently on the floor next to Silvia and Rocky, and I had to clean up the K3 to put with them as well so I could move the Silvia drawer base over to the grinder bench (the K10 and K8 (replaces K3) happen to fit PERFECTLY on it, so it looks pretty slick with only a bit of overhang beyond the feet, and the Bunn MCP next to them both looking pretty miniaturized.) The Blendtec and knock box now are near the tamp stand and Duetto...and I need to figure out what on earth to do with my stack of PFs that can no longer dangle out of the Silvia base :)
Still....it's not quite the coffee graveyard you've got there. Two grinders in service, two stowed isn't quite....THIS :P
Len that is really hard to say. I like different things about each of them...
My two SJs are of different earas. They both have new burrs so, side by side they are about equal. My standard dose is 18g pulled at. About 30 seconds for a two oz double (volumetric pulled.) The older SJ takes about 1.3 seconds longer for the same 18g of coffee. Other than that though they are pretty much the same in the cup. The older one used to be automatic and the newer one has a timer. I run them (all the grinders that have hoppers really) on a digital timer.
Next, just to the right of my machine, I have an N.S. MCD65 bulk grinder. It has 65mm flat burrs (the same ones ason the NS MDX) it does a very nice job with general grinding duties. I use it for vac pot, drip, aeropress and single dose espresso. The adjustment knob goes from coarse to turkish in about 300 deg of revoulition. This makes changing grinds quick but dialing in espresso is a bit fussy with the quick burr movement. It has the bulk bag spout so it is doserless. I find it lays down a wonderful, smooth, clump free velvet looking bed of grounds, just tamp and pull.
The rest of the grinders are new to me except for the T 80s. I used one at work for a while. They both are doserless with bag spouts. They are fairly fine stepped grinders (34 from memory) and with the bag nozzle they lay down a nice grind into the PF. The down side of them is that there is a large step on the inside of the lower burr, causing beans to get caught there. This could be fixed with a very thick washer of proper size to go around the motor shaft bolt yet inside the lower burr. Likely this is a custom fix, though not a hard one if one owns a metal lathe LOL!
The mdx needs new burrs but even still, with butter knife dull burrs, it took 9.5 seconds to grind the 18g and pulled a very very nice shot. It's chute is larger than the chute on the SJs making cleaning a bit easier. The larger chute also lets the grounds exit the chute faster and they impact the side of the doser fairly hard, causing them to build up there. New burrs likely will make a difference but as of right now that is what I am getting. I like the micro adjustment better than the SJ, it is easier to make fine adjustments with but it would take a fair amount of turns I think to radically change grind size. The NS grinders move the lower burr which has the motor attached while the top burr is stationary, just the opposite of the Mazzer. NS claims that this arrangement coupled with the micro adjuster, is more stable than the Mazzer and will not creep though I have not had a creep issue with the Mazzer.
The Gaggia is the hardest one to single dose with due to the construction of the hopper and the doser chamber. It does a good job of grinding with a grind texture pretty much equal the SJ. In fact, all the grinders have burrs in the 63 to 65mm size and produce a grind that is even and very similar. I would expect this as all the grinders have solid all metal burr mounts and solid adjustments for the burrs while all using similar size flat burrs.
This leaves the Rossi RR 45. automatic. This is a stepped grinder and it has very dull burrs indeed. New burrs are about $40 and they will be going onto the grinder soon. The little I have had a chance to play with it shows it to be a competent grinder too. While I have not used a Rocky, I would guess that they all easily out perform Rocky. They all have a list price from $700 to $1300 (from what I have found on line and from memory, this could be off I guess) so I would expect the build quality to be much better than rocky just from list price alone.
If I had to pick just one..... wow, that would be hard. I am very used to my SJs and I would take the newer one over the older one but that is due to me liking the looks a little more of the new over the old.
I feel the NS bulk grinder is very competent for a wide range of grinding while it's brother the MDX has the same adjustment setup and I like it more than the SJ. I guess I would stay stepless but I like the doser a little more than without as I can grind while pulling a shot using only one PF and basket.
I would need to evaluate the MDX a bit more with new burrs but I could see myself being very happy with either the SJ or the MDX.... flip a coin I guess.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Sep 19, 2011, 11:28am Subject: Re: Am I over the edge and in the deep end???
TheMadTamper Said:
Holy Starbucks, that's a lot of grinders!
Please tell me that includes the ones you're not allowed to "flip" from the auctions? Otherwise...what ARE you using them all for? I think someone may be a good candidate for a Versalab (or at least a K10 or Robur) to single dose with!)
Yes it does, the Gaggia, T-80s and the Rossi were the ones I was going to sell. They all work, some better than others though due to burr condition but OTW pretty much the same. The major difference is stepped VS non stepped and access into the dosers. Grind wise though, like the post above, they are within a stones throw of the same quality from one end to the other. From the left. Gaggia, MDX, Rossi RR 45 then the T80s and not to be forgotten the SJs (old then new from left)
OK, you want me to add MORE grinders with the K10, Robur etc! LOL!
It sounds like you are well on your way to catching up equipment wise! Just for head count, I have 2 single group commercial espresso machines, a double group commercial and two thermoblock espresso machines. I have 7 espresso only grinders, two full range bulk grinders, a Solis 166 for travel, 2 air pot brewers, two multi pot commercial drip brewers, two manual pour over cones, a vac pot, two aeropresses, a moka pot and several steaming pitchers, cups, glasses, mugs etc!
EDIT: Just to the left and behind the Gaggia, is my Vita mix... a much better mixer than the second class BLENDTECH LOL!!!!! just kidding !
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Mon Sep 19, 2011, 11:37am Subject: Re: Am I over the edge and in the deep end???
Ok, you asked to see the mixer. Here you go. It is just to the right of the counter the syrup containers are on. See that small white thing to the right of the mixer? It is my 5 qt Kitchen Aid mixer LOL!
Oh, I now have 3 bowls for the Hobart. One 20 qt stainless, one 12 qt stainless and one 12 qt tin coated steel.
Of course, you need paddles, dough hooks, wisks in both sizes 20 and 12 qt. Then you need a spiral dough hook in addition to the straight one!
(Click for larger image)
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Posted Mon Sep 19, 2011, 12:24pm Subject: Re: Am I over the edge and in the deep end???
calblacksmith Said:
Yes it does, the Gaggia, T-80s and the Rossi were the ones I was going to sell. They all work, some better than others though due to burr condition but OTW pretty much the same. The major difference is stepped VS non stepped and access into the dosers. Grind wise though, like the post above, they are within a stones throw of the same quality from one end to the other. From the left. Gaggia, MDX, Rossi RR 45 then the T80s and not to be forgotten the SJs (old then new from left)
OK, you want me to add MORE grinders with the K10, Robur etc! LOL!
(Actually the idea was to REPLACE some of the bank of grinders....with a good multi-purpose single doser! :P )
It sounds like you are well on your way to catching up equipment wise! Just for head count, I have 2 single group commercial espresso machines, a double group commercial and two thermoblock espresso machines. I have 7 espresso only grinders, two full range bulk grinders, a Solis 166 for travel, 2 air pot brewers, two multi pot commercial drip brewers, two manual pour over cones, a vac pot, two aeropresses, a moka pot and several steaming pitchers, cups, glasses, mugs etc!
Oh, I don't think I'll ever catch up, equipment-wise :) I did forget to mention the steam-toy and the Krups espresso machines...but your multi-group whiz-bang commercial machines kind of skips past that :) I have the Bunn MCP and a Krups grinder in storage (we won't talk about the Mr. Coffee "burr" grinder....oh, those were the days...when I thought a $25 grinder was the cat's meow...it has BURRS!) Oh, and then there's the array of steam pitchers...cups and mugs...that's a whole different clutter. But no, you still win, by a wide margin, too!
EDIT: Just to the left and behind the Gaggia, is my Vita mix... a much better mixer than the second class BLENDTECH LOL!!!!! just kidding !
LOL! Ohh, so mister "buy an electronic push-button automatic timed volumetric self-shutoff espresso machine" doesn't want an electronic push-button timed automatic blender that shuts itself off?! I see how it is.... :P
I must say, the Blendtec looks spiffy with the blue LCD screen next to the Duetto's blue PID :P Well, that, and it fits under the cabinet unlike a Vitamix, since its old spot at the grinding bench next to the K10 had to be taken over by the K8 Fresh :P The cool yellow LCD of the K8 wouldn't match the blender at all!
Posted Mon Sep 19, 2011, 12:24pm Subject: Re: Am I over the edge and in the deep end???
calblacksmith Said:
Ok, you asked to see the mixer. Here you go. It is just to the right of the counter the syrup containers are on. See that small white thing to the right of the mixer? It is my 5 qt Kitchen Aid mixer LOL!
Oh, I now have 3 bowls for the Hobart. One 20 qt stainless, one 12 qt stainless and one 12 qt tin coated steel.
Of course, you need paddles, dough hooks, wisks in both sizes 20 and 12 qt. Then you need a spiral dough hook in addition to the straight one!
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