Coyak Senior Member Joined: 10 Nov 2008 Posts: 3 Location: Boulder, CO Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Livia90, GS3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Roaster: Behmor, iRoast2
Posted Fri Oct 7, 2011, 11:14am Subject: Chris Coffee/GS3….issues
I purchased a GS3 in the Fall of 2008 from Chris Coffee. My decision to purchase the GS3 from CC (and not one of the cheaper alternatives) was mainly due to the favorable comments regarding CC on this board. When the GS3 arrived at my home the accessory boxes were not secured and the metal retaining straps on the GS3 had been already cut. I was very surprised that the GS3 had not been damaged. I decided to accept the GS3. The delivery truck arrived without a lift gate and only the driver. Had I not been at home to help him lift it off the truck and bring it inside my house I’m not sure what would have occurred.
In July of 2010 had to replace the “no burn” steam wand with the “burn me” wand due to the plastic joint. I was aware this had been an issue with other GS3 owners and had been very careful to support the wand at all times. Both the steam wand joint and the water wand joint have broken. I was informed by CC that changing the wand to the “burn me” was an upgrade and wouldn’t be covered by warranty (even though the “no burn” wand is clearly a defective design/part). I purchased the wand for $150 ($40 off list price). However, after installing the wand I was unable to attach the original tip without significant leaking through the treads. I called CC and they suggested that I install Teflon tape to resolve the issue. This was not something I believed I should have to do especially since the original wand/tip did not leak. As much as I regret it I decided to “live with it”.
Today while I was changing the tip the wand broke at the top of the treads. I called CC and they said it was no longer covered under warranty and I could buy a new wand for $49.28 (the list price).
I was very frustrated….
Next I called La Marzocco directly. The person I spoke to was very helpful and is SHIPPING THE REPLACEMENT STEAM WAND FREE OF CHARGE. I was told he would cover it under warranty.
You tell me….is this good customer service from CC?
doubleOsoul Senior Member Joined: 27 Jul 2009 Posts: 156 Location: Norcal & BC Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra Epoque,3 MCals,... Grinder: Mazzer, Cunill, Pede (s),... Vac Pot: vintage Drip: Nope... Roaster: I hand roast
Posted Fri Oct 7, 2011, 11:34am Subject: Re: Chris Coffee/GS3….issues
I'm right with you Coyak. I've had similar problems: major service issues with Salvatore.
I think that when a person invests in a machine that is over the $2000 mark, one should expect some service and equipment performance within reason. We're not buying some unit from Walmart after all. And... let's remember, we are in a major recession and many folks have lost jobs and homes so an espresso machine is a obvious luxury.
I think it's important to share your experience either good or bad without getting personal so others can make informed choices. I would have appreciated accurate feedback when I bought a Silvia and Rocky from a supplier highly recommended on this forum myself instead of having to learn the hard way.
Bad service costs everybody at the end of the day.
chriscoffee Senior Member Joined: 5 Mar 2002 Posts: 240 Location: Albany Expertise: Professional
Posted Mon Oct 10, 2011, 5:26pm Subject: Re: Chris Coffee/GS3….issues
Let me address things one by one.
#1 The machine left our warehouse strapped to a pallet and by the way fully insured.
#2 If the truck arrived and you were not home the delivery would not have been made. You were fortunate that the driver was willing to help you carry the machine into your home. Truckers in general are not all that helpful. We use approximately 6 different freight companies that we have found to provide good service to our customers.
#3 You were never told, "In July of 2010 had to replace the “no burn” steam wand with the “burn me” wand due to the plastic joint." The plastic joints were upgraded to brass and stainless and were replaced at NO Charge. You chose to replace the No Burn arm with the Burn one. The GS3 to this day is still manufactured and sold ONLY with the No Burn arm. You can't even order them from La Marzocco with the Burn Arm they will NOT install them even if you are willing to pay for the Burn Arm. We install them for customers at NO Charge for Labor. Arm assembly is $190.00 lit price.
#4 The Burn Steam Arm comes with it's own steam tip. I can not help it if the tip on the arm you wanted to replace would not fit properly on the new arm you wanted.
#5 I am happy to hear that La Marzocco is sending you a replacement arm at N/C. However the warranty is one year I can't call La Marzocco every time something is out of warranty, especially by as much as your machine was and ask them to replace parts under warranty. I have never seen a steam arm break when unscrewing a steam tip unless too much pressure is applied to it. You should be able to remove a tip with your fingers and there is no way to break the arm off at the thread with your finger.
Chris Nachtrieb, Pres. Chris' Coffee Service, Inc.
Posted Mon Oct 10, 2011, 7:43pm Subject: Re: Chris Coffee/GS3….issues
Coyak Said:
"I called CC and they suggested that I install Teflon tape to resolve the issue. This was not something I believed I should have to do especially since the original wand/tip did not leak. As much as I regret it I decided to “live with it”."
I would have definitely followed the advice provided by Chris Coffee regarding using teflon tape. Teflon tape (if you did not know already) is used almost exclusively and generally always when putting a female threaded fitting on a male threaded pipe (tube, etc.). The tape allows ease of fitting the 2 parts together and prevents leaks from occuring. The issue you finally encountered was likely due to degradation of the area where hot steam leaked out due to you not originally following Chris Coffee advice to use the teflon tape.
(BTW: Teflon tape is about $1.00 a roll at home depot.)
Len
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674
Coyak Senior Member Joined: 10 Nov 2008 Posts: 3 Location: Boulder, CO Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Livia90, GS3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Roaster: Behmor, iRoast2
Posted Mon Oct 17, 2011, 8:50pm Subject: Re: Chris Coffee/GS3….issues
chriscoffee Said:
Let me address things one by one.
#1 The machine left our warehouse strapped to a pallet and by the way fully insured.
#2 If the truck arrived and you were not home the delivery would not have been made. You were fortunate that the driver was willing to help you carry the machine into your home. Truckers in general are not all that helpful. We use approximately 6 different freight companies that we have found to provide good service to our customers.
#3 You were never told, "In July of 2010 had to replace the “no burn” steam wand with the “burn me” wand due to the plastic joint." The plastic joints were upgraded to brass and stainless and were replaced at NO Charge. You chose to replace the No Burn arm with the Burn one. The GS3 to this day is still manufactured and sold ONLY with the No Burn arm. You can't even order them from La Marzocco with the Burn Arm they will NOT install them even if you are willing to pay for the Burn Arm. We install them for customers at NO Charge for Labor. Arm assembly is $190.00 lit price.
#4 The Burn Steam Arm comes with it's own steam tip. I can not help it if the tip on the arm you wanted to replace would not fit properly on the new arm you wanted.
#5 I am happy to hear that La Marzocco is sending you a replacement arm at N/C. However the warranty is one year I can't call La Marzocco every time something is out of warranty, especially by as much as your machine was and ask them to replace parts under warranty. I have never seen a steam arm break when unscrewing a steam tip unless too much pressure is applied to it. You should be able to remove a tip with your fingers and there is no way to break the arm off at the thread with your finger.
Chris Nachtrieb, Pres. Chris' Coffee Service, Inc.
#2 “You were fortunate that the driver was willing to help you carry the machine into your home” In my view, the driver was fortunate that I was will to help him lift it off his truck as he would not have been able to remove it otherwise.
#3 I never stated that I was “told” to replace the “no burn” wand with “burn me” wand. What I stated was that the joint is clearly a defective part. Yes, I was informed by CC that I could replace the broken joint with new ones at no charge. However, the replacements were the same plastic joints that broke on both the steam arm and the hot water arm. In fact, I still have the replacement plastic joint that was sent to me by CC. I have not replaced the original broken joint because it will break soon there after. I elected to replace the “no burn” wand with the “burn me” wand because I did not want to replace the joint every year. I was never offered or informed that there were metal joints available. Also, I am aware of at least one person that have had the “no burn” steam replaced free of charge by La Marzocco.
#4 The stock tip that came with the burn wand leaked excessively - as did the stock tip from the no burn wand. Both tips sealed correctly on the no burn wand. I called and explained this to your staff. The tread height on the “no burn” wand is visibly higher than those on the “burn me” wand. I have a photo if anyone is interested.
#5 Actually, the part in question was at 13 months from the order date (not the delivery date)….therefore, one month “out of warranty”.
CoffeeRoastersClub Said:
I would have definitely followed the advice provided by Chris Coffee regarding using teflon tape. Teflon tape (if you did not know already) is used almost exclusively and generally always when putting a female threaded fitting on a male threaded pipe (tube, etc.). The tape allows ease of fitting the 2 parts together and prevents leaks from occurring. The issue you finally encountered was likely due to degradation of the area where hot steam leaked out due to you not originally following Chris Coffee advice to use the teflon tape.
(BTW: Teflon tape is about $1.00 a roll at home depot.)
Len, I did not state that I hadn’t used Teflon tape. I stated that it “was not something I believed I should have to do”. The suggestion that the breakage occurred due to “not originally following Chris Coffee advice to use Teflon tape” is ridiculous. I am fully aware of the uses of Teflon tape and actually had used it on the treads…again, I don’t believe I should have to. Also, while it is not a huge concern of mine there is increasing data suggesting Teflon's possible role in various health issues.
I am certainly not expecting for parts or repairs to be free of charge. However, if I have an issue I don’t believe excellent customer support involves the reseller telling me to contact the manufacturer directly.
BTW – I am attempting to cut new treads on the broken wand. Finding the die locally is not easy. If anyone is interested the treads are 1/8” British Standard Pipe Taper thread (BSPT) – thank you Espresso Parts
Posted Wed Oct 26, 2011, 3:02pm Subject: Re: Chris Coffee/GS3….issues
I don't know what kind of trucking companies are involved here BUT I have shipped all over north america and have received from all over north america. A couple of friends of mine are responsible for logistics for a couple of companies all over north america.
general rule. tractor trailer, receiver is responsible for unloading straight truck. driver is responsible for unloading.
So unless the machine was delivered by a tractor trailer. The driver and or the shipping company was responsible for delivery or arranging delivery of the product to the end destination.
rbh1515 Senior Member Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 1,273 Location: Milwaukee Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: LM GS3 Grinder: Mahlkonig/VersalabM3 Vac Pot: have one Drip: no Roaster: got that too/never use it
Posted Wed Oct 26, 2011, 8:28pm Subject: Re: Chris Coffee/GS3….issues
Coyak, I will have to say that I have had nothing but quality service from CC. I bought a GS3 from them which I have had almost 3 years. I bought the burn me wand soon after I got the machine, since the stock wand was not that great, and the plastic piece looked to be vulnerable to breaking. They helped me quiet down the vibrations of the machine. I recently replaced the vacuum breaker valve--I called LM directly and had a less than optimal interaction--they sent me some wrong parts etc. Later I found out that CC also carried the parts, and I bet they would have been a lot more helpful--actually I sure that would have, since I ended up buying a part from them (not available from LM) to complete the project. I think that when you buy a machine as complicated and sophisticated as the GS3, that you will probably have some expenses down the line. CC will always be there to help you out, and may even give you a great deal if you are nice to them--that's my experience! I would not buy a machine like the GS3 from anyone else. Rob
Posted Sun Oct 30, 2011, 6:14pm Subject: Re: Chris Coffee/GS3….issues
Coyak Said:
Len, I did not state that I hadn’t used Teflon tape. I stated that it “was not something I believed I should have to do”. The suggestion that the breakage occurred due to “not originally following Chris Coffee advice to use Teflon tape” is ridiculous. I am fully aware of the uses of Teflon tape and actually had used it on the treads…again, I don’t believe I should have to. Also, while it is not a huge concern of mine there is increasing data suggesting Teflon's possible role in various health issues.
Did it leak at all after putting the teflon tape on the threads?
Len
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674
khuzdul Senior Member Joined: 24 Mar 2009 Posts: 77 Location: U.S. North East
Posted Sun Oct 30, 2011, 9:41pm Subject: Re: Chris Coffee/GS3….issues
lost Said:
I don't know what kind of trucking companies are involved here BUT I have shipped all over north america and have received from all over north america. A couple of friends of mine are responsible for logistics for a couple of companies all over north america.
general rule. tractor trailer, receiver is responsible for unloading straight truck. driver is responsible for unloading.
So unless the machine was delivered by a tractor trailer. The driver and or the shipping company was responsible for delivery or arranging delivery of the product to the end destination.
I have had fairly extensive experience in both commercial and residential shipping. Unless liftgate or inside delivery is specified and paid for, the shipping company is not responsible for these services. I would also say that even with reputable companies, even if the service is paid for and specified (an on the receipt), sometimes drivers will try to weasel out of inside delivery. Over the years, I have had more than one delivery with liftgate and inside delivery specified and had a non-liftgate truck arrive with a driver only for tons of equipment on multiple pallets which of course I had to send back and call the trucking companies (with whom our mail room/shipping department has fairly good relations with, so you would not think that they would screw around with) to have them come back out with a liftgate truck and two people and a pallet jack.
I don't know how this was shipped, but from the sound of Chris's post, inside delivery was not specified or paid for, so in that the trucker helped to carry the crate into the house, in my experience, is very fortunate. From the sound of the Coyak's post, he expected inside delivery. Customer service complaints are always tough to judge as each side only tells the "truth" as they see it, and often it is at odds with the other parties "truth". I do hope that it gets sorted out...
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