smasha Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2012 Posts: 32 Location: Cambridge Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Dec 2, 2012, 8:16am Subject: home roasting, grinding and brewing
HI
I recently purchased a HX machine and grinder and pop corn roaster. I have been absolutely amazed at the consistant quality of coffee's that i have been making lately.
Even with the variations of the pop corn roaster and the variing popping times and roast levels, my shots are pretty good and latte's becoming suberb.
Reflecting on this, how on earth can so many coffee shops just get it sooo wrong?? cos I am now making coffee's at home up there with the best of the coffees that I have had out at some great cafe's in particular around melbourne and the odd one in london. I live in cambridge and there are only a few places that do decent espresso and even then there is issues.
yakster Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 1,006 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Factory / La Peppina... Grinder: Vario / Kyocera Vac Pot: Yama 8 + Pyrex Lox-in Rod Drip: Brazen / Kalita / Chemex /... Roaster: Behmor
Posted Mon Dec 3, 2012, 4:22pm Subject: Re: home roasting, grinding and brewing
smasha Said:
how on earth can so many coffee shops just get it sooo wrong?? cos I am now making coffee's at home up there with the best of the coffees that I have had out at some great cafe's in particular around melbourne and the odd one in london. I live in cambridge and there are only a few places that do decent espresso and even then there is issues.
qualin Senior Member Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 457 Location: Calgary, AB Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A Vac Pot: Looking to buy Drip: Manual Roaster: Considering?
Posted Sat Dec 8, 2012, 1:11am Subject: Re: home roasting, grinding and brewing
smasha Said:
How on earth can so many coffee shops just get it sooo wrong?? cos I am now making coffee's at home up there with the best of the coffees that I have had out at some great cafe's
The goal of any business is not to sell you a great product. The goal of a business is to take your money and deliver a product which the consumer deems acceptable, so that they continue to retain the business of the shop, don't complain and don't cost the shop more money by demanding a return, exchange or otherwise. This applies to any business model, unfortunately.
In saying that, if you are lucky, you may find a shop with a talented and experienced Barista who is passionate about coffee. The owner probably really couldn't care less what the Barista does, as long as the cash continues to flow into the till and the customers are happy. In saying that, I've heard about some owners getting really fussy about coffee waste. If the Barista is making sink shots or is throwing shots away because they're not good, they can get into trouble, so they have to resort to throwing those shots into an extra large latte and hope nobody notices.
Now, that's a generalization.. Perhaps some owners are extremely passionate about their coffee.. They won't let a new employee pull a shot on the machine for a customer until they've been drinking their own shots for at least two months. Until then, they're relegated to milk steaming and drip coffee duty. In which case, these are the shops to look out for.
I've heard of horror stories where the Barista was just someone thrown behind the counter with less than 2 hours of training and is suddenly expected to pull perfect shots. Some businesses don't even want to train their baristas at all, they just buy a Super-Automatic to offset the training costs and know that they can't screw up too much by pushing a button.
I've had shots which were pulled from an overheated heat exchanging machine that wasn't flushed prior to making the shot. My God, they tasted like charcoal. I've also tasted shots which were a little under-extracted.. but I knew what flavors to look for... A lot of consumers couldn't care less that their coffee is a little sour or too bitter. "Good enough" is good enough.
IMHO though, I don't believe that the general public cares about overextracted or underextracted shots, unless they're horrendously out of whack. Usually the flavor of the milk covers up those mistakes. Especially if someone orders a flavored drink which covers up most of the coffee flavor anyway.
I'm glad to hear that you are making what is better in the shops, but you have to think, you have an entirely different goal in mind.. Your goal is to make the best coffee ever made, which isn't in the best commercial interests of most coffee shops, especially if it involves additional cost with no expected return. Sadly, the shops that do believe that the product comes before anything else, no matter what the cost, are rare, hard to find and must be cherished. Sometimes they carry a premium to help pay for that. It all depends on the owners attitude really. Realistically, you know the score.
I thought about starting my own business, but I am honestly afraid that it would drain any passion that I have about coffee out of me. I'm afraid that I would have to stop looking at the quality of the coffee and I'd have to start thinking hard about what actually makes money... and I can't really see myself thinking like that. There is the argument that a great product retains customers and I agree, but like anything in the service industry, customers don't have any obligation to be loyal to anyone, unless the shop is the only game in town. That sporadic nature of business can make or break a shop.
I'm going to admit that I'm not an expert and I still have a lot to learn about this industry. I'm sure that actual business owners who run coffee shops who frequent this board would have a few kind (Or unkind?) words to say about their business approach. I'm interested in hearing all of them.
dorkroast Senior Member Joined: 3 Oct 2012 Posts: 78 Location: CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic Grinder: Mazzer Mini Roaster: Popcorn Pumper
Posted Wed Dec 19, 2012, 9:02pm Subject: Re: home roasting, grinding and brewing
When I've been asked in the past about a certain unnamed chain I've always had a response like this:
They make consistent mediocre coffee. The great thing about them is that no matter what the location is, when you order a drink you pretty much know what you'll get before you get it. It won't be great, and it won't be crap, but it will be drinkable.
In a world of really crappy coffee shops maybe this is all we can ask for?
I've been surprised and disappointed that several of my local small shops make espresso drinks which are worse than the large chains- perpetuating the myth that the big chains make the best coffee.
Pourista Senior Member Joined: 20 Dec 2012 Posts: 15 Location: Davis, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Mishka's Medium Roast
Posted Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:21am Subject: Re: home roasting, grinding and brewing
Hi, new here but not to coffee. I agree with that. I think just because a chain is so large, people assume they must be great otherwise how did they become so successful? Conversely, people might think a local shop might not be so good because it's so small and hasn't become "successful". Then again, everyone has a different taste for coffee.
I also think coffee tastes better when made at home and it's fun to experiment with slight variations day by day! A bit more coarse one day and a bit finer the next.
qualin Senior Member Joined: 30 Jun 2012 Posts: 457 Location: Calgary, AB Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3 Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A Vac Pot: Looking to buy Drip: Manual Roaster: Considering?
Posted Thu Dec 20, 2012, 11:45am Subject: Re: home roasting, grinding and brewing
dorkroast Said:
They make consistent mediocre coffee. The great thing about them is that no matter what the location is, when you order a drink you pretty much know what you'll get before you get it. It won't be great, and it won't be crap, but it will be drinkable.
That's pretty much the goal of any franchise. Keeping everything completely consistent right across the board. You can have a coffee in Miami which tastes exactly the same as a coffee in Los Angeles. You know exactly what you are getting.
This is why franchise owners have the big "Red Book" that is basically a turnkey operation manual. Turn the key to open the front door and everything else gets tracked in the computer system.
A friend of mine working at a McDonalds decided to play a prank and order 2000 cups of water at no charge on the register. A day later, a large truck came up to the store full of boxes of cups. The system was smart enough to know that cups needed to be re-ordered and that any other relevant supplies were automatically ordered by the system as they needed them.
The manager doesn't need to think about what supplies they need, or signage or even policies.. It's all dictated to them from the corporate office. Want to keep your franchising license? Do what we say or else. In some ways, that's a great thing. A franchise owner can't just decide they want to go back to using traditional semi-automatic or lever machines because they look stylish and will help business. They get their equipment from the corporate office like every other franchisee and are given instructions on how to use it. That's pretty much it.
dorkroast Said:
In a world of really crappy coffee shops maybe this is all we can ask for?
Well, this is another issue as well. When was the last time you can remember ordering a really super awesome burger from the golden arches? I can't. I think any large chain suffers from quality issues in that regard. The product isn't always that great, but I can say without a doubt that I've never had a really bad burger from them either and I've never received food poisoning, like I have from other independently owned burger joints.
I think the chains are probably a good starting point at which to compare your coffee. That's a low bar to set, but a good one. After that, everything is just bliss. :-)
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