whitty Junior Member Joined: 19 Mar 2013 Posts: 2 Location: Temple, TX Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Mar 19, 2013, 9:15am Subject: How difficult for a beginner?
Hey, folks. I'm going to make this quick so you don't have to sift through too many words. I'd love some advice. I'm considering jumping into the world of espresso and essentially my only experience is with super-autos, cafes and coffee shops. I've done some research and am considering the following package that I have pieced together on 1st line. First before I dive in too deep...Am I going to be way over my head and find that I spent a bunch of money and can't make anything potable for weeks? I have no experience with a semi-automatic...how difficult is it to make a decent shot? I don't expect perfection, but also don't want to waste a bunch of money. What can I expect from the learning curve? Second, thoughts on the package and equipment for a first timer. Thanks!
Lelit PL041QE Espresso Machine Package- 241818 $429.00 Add A Grinder (optional): Lelit PL53 Espresso Grinder - doserless, stepless - B107--- $170.00 Concept Art/Rexroth Tamper Base - 57mm, knock ring - ST23D--- $20.00 Concept Art/Rexroth Wooden Tamper Handle - Rosewood - ST23D $29.19 Pallo COFFEETOOL Black Original "Scald-Free" Grouphead Brush- ST9E $6.30 International Steaming Pitcher - 20 fl oz max - B216--- $11.66 Harold Import Company Coffee Grinder Brush- ST9B (42130) $4.95 Concept Art/Rexroth Knock Box - basic - ST10C (GEKBoxBlack) $19.94
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,475 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Tue Mar 19, 2013, 11:10am Subject: Re: How difficult for a beginner?
whitty Said:
Hey, folks. I'm going to make this quick so you don't have to sift through too many words. I'd love some advice. I'm considering jumping into the world of espresso and essentially my only experience is with super-autos, cafes and coffee shops. I've done some research and am considering the following package that I have pieced together on 1st line. First before I dive in too deep...Am I going to be way over my head and find that I spent a bunch of money and can't make anything potable for weeks? I have no experience with a semi-automatic...how difficult is it to make a decent shot? I don't expect perfection, but also don't want to waste a bunch of money. What can I expect from the learning curve? Second, thoughts on the package and equipment for a first timer. Thanks!
Lelit PL041QE Espresso Machine Package- 241818 $429.00 Add A Grinder (optional): Lelit PL53 Espresso Grinder - doserless, stepless - B107--- $170.00 Concept Art/Rexroth Tamper Base - 57mm, knock ring - ST23D--- $20.00 Concept Art/Rexroth Wooden Tamper Handle - Rosewood - ST23D $29.19 Pallo COFFEETOOL Black Original "Scald-Free" Grouphead Brush- ST9E $6.30 International Steaming Pitcher - 20 fl oz max - B216--- $11.66 Harold Import Company Coffee Grinder Brush- ST9B (42130) $4.95 Concept Art/Rexroth Knock Box - basic - ST10C (GEKBoxBlack) $19.94
Will, welcome to CG. Include $ for cleaning supplies (Joe Glo, cafiza, etc), or get your vendor to include as a gift. If your budget is $700, and you like the looks of your gear, why not? I would say DO NOT buy these machines from other than a reputable vendor.
You're gonna get the inevitable "but if you spend xxxx$$$ more you can get xxxxx." The ONLY place worth upgrading would be the grinder, as the grinder is the centerpiece of your espresso shrine. Your grinder is plenty good enough for now, though. Don't get locked into "matching" machine and grinder. Get the best you can afford of grinder and machine. BTW, if you plan on making a lot of milk drinks, this machine is not the best choice, as there will be a wait to steam, or if you steam first (recommended) a wait for the temperature to fall for espresso. A HX machine would be better, but even preowned will be $300-600 more. The NS Oscar would be the best alternative, or perhaps the Bezzara.
If you're doing 75% or more espresso, what you have spelled out will work fine.
Keep us informed!
EDIT, the learning curve is not as bad as you may have heard. :>D That said, if you can afford a "Bottomless" Porta filter, I'd get one. This way, you can clearly (and at first PAINFULLY) see any problems with your technique. If there are spritzes (water squirts out of the basket) and such, that is a sign of poor distribution technique. The key is making sure the coffee is distributed evenly in the basket, with no side breaks for water to creep in, which causes "channeling." Tamping is over-rated. Just level, don't get fussy. EDITED again for horrible typos. :>D
whitty Junior Member Joined: 19 Mar 2013 Posts: 2 Location: Temple, TX Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Mar 19, 2013, 12:47pm Subject: Re: How difficult for a beginner?
I will probably making about 50/50 espresso and milk drinks given who I am making for. I wish I could afford the oscar, but you've gotta start somewhere. Suggestions on a starter grinder? I know you can spend a ton, but if I'm trying to hit the $700 mark and get something in the range of the gaggia classic or lelit, I'm not sure I can spend $500+ on a grinder right now. The baratza virtuoso is possibly affordable. Not sure how it compares to the lelit. Any suggestions on reputable vendors? Thanks for the feedback!
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,792 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Tue Mar 19, 2013, 2:35pm Subject: Re: How difficult for a beginner?
Most of us consider the Preciso to be entry level for electric espresso grinders. You can get a refurbished one from Baratza with a one yr warranty for $239. You could also opt for a manual grinder, such as a Hario Slim ($40) or Skerton ($50), or an Orphan Espresso (OE) Lido ($165 + shipping).
takeshi Senior Member Joined: 12 Oct 2002 Posts: 753 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: Super Jolly Roaster: Amaya Roasting
Posted Thu Mar 21, 2013, 10:39am Subject: Re: How difficult for a beginner?
whitty Said:
First before I dive in too deep...Am I going to be way over my head and find that I spent a bunch of money and can't make anything potable for weeks? I have no experience with a semi-automatic...how difficult is it to make a decent shot?
Impossible for us to tell you. Some find a steep learing curve. Others have no problem. People aren't all identical and don't learn the same way(s) or at the same rate. If you can pay attention to what you're doing and if you have the enthusiasm then there's no reason that you can't pick it up. If you're just looking for a new shiny toy then you might end up easily distracted.
Further, what's "decent" is highly subjective. As a newbie if you haven't had experience with really good coffee shops it's probably easy to get a decent shot. As you experience better shots, the bar for "decent" goes up.
emradguy Said:
Most of us consider the Preciso to be entry level for electric espresso grinders.
Good catch, Don! I agree...probably want a 12 or 16oz pitcher to start - If only buying one pitcher, I'd get the 16oz, then think about what else I need/want later.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,758 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Fri Mar 22, 2013, 5:44am Subject: Re: How difficult for a beginner?
The cost of a pitcher is minimal when choosing between two sizes. I use a 32 oz pitcher with 16 oz milk. That may come as a shock to some and others yawn YMMV but I add enough espresso to just make a very large cap, something I can drink for an hour or more on my drive to work. I say, buy equipment for what you intend to do and adjust from there YMMV!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,475 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sat Mar 23, 2013, 2:53pm Subject: Re: How difficult for a beginner?
Moving on from which milk pitcher to get, focusing on the grinder, the Lelit is a bit noisy, but many feel it does a more than decent job. The Preciso is more versatile. Not having used or owned the Lelit, I can't comment on the grind quality compared to the Preciso. I CAN comment on Baratza's Customer Service, which is among the very best in the coffee industry.
It's good you understand the importance of the grinder, and also reading all instruction manuals!
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