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Before I upgrade
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Discussions > Espresso > General > Before I upgrade  
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Shawn12
Senior Member
Shawn12
Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Barrie,ON, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07
Grinder: Vario/Virtuoso...
Vac Pot: Yama 5/Balancing Siphon
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Wed Jul 31, 2013, 7:53pm
Subject: Before I upgrade
 

I have outgtown my current set up so I'm looking to make some upgrades. Just want any second opinions anyone may have to offer before I go ahead and start. I have attached a picture of my current set up.

Gaggia MDF - used as my main espresso grinder.
Gaggia Classic- added a Silva wand. Thought seriously about a PID but I think I'm ready to just upgrade.
Virtuoso with Preciso burrs- used mainly for vac pot and drip grinds but sometimes on decaf espresso if my wife wants one and I have beans in the MDF.
Scale- to help with vac pot and drip amounts mostly.
Brazen - not doing anything with it.

My plan

- Get rid of the scale and add a Esatto to the Virtuoso in order to free up some counter space. Virtuoso will be used the same way it is now.
- Replace the MDF with a Compak K3 Touch . Will be used exclusively for espresso. I can get a Vario about $140 cheaper though. Should I just do that? Heard the grind is a little better. I just think since the Compak will be espresso only I should go that way. I think it looks better and seems like it will last longer in terms of build quality. Barely fits under my 17.5 inch counter.
- Use the room saved by getting rid of the scale to add a Quick Mill Vetrano 2B. Not yet available in Canada but I can wait.  Will be about $2200. Other machines I strongly considered were..Quick Mill QM67, Rocket Cellini Premium V2 and the Brewtus IV. Landed on wanting the DB and when I saw the Vetrano 2B with rotary pump I was sold.  

Just looking for anybodys 2 cents before I go down this road . Thanks.

Shawn12: setup1.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,089
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013, 5:01am
Subject: Re: Before I upgrade
 

Go with the Vario.
Actually all of those machines are available in Canada. Creative Coffee sells them.  They are located in Montreal.  Check it out. :) The Rocket CP V2 looks like a good deal.   BTW The Vario from what I have read can hold up to commercial use too.  

Hope this helps!
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,842
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013, 6:00am
Subject: Re: Before I upgrade
 

In contrast to above, go with the best grinder you can afford then go the next step up. My personal ranking of grinders is that the Vario is a good place to START looking at an espresso grinder. I know the general feeling is that it is a very good grinder, well, it works, is it as good as a SJ, some say the grind is as good (a lot really) but as I never have used a Vario, I will not say that it is, I can't say it isn't but I am inclined to say not due to several small things I have heard over the years. YMMV.

DO step up to the HX, it is a HUGE difference over a SBDU, as I have both, I can say that I will stand behind that statement without hesitation. Is there a difference between HX and DB, not in the cup. Personal preference, likes and dislikes will play much more of an important part here but either machine properly operated will be outstanding performers.

My grinder auto doses with an internal scale (commercial grinder) so I no longer have a scale on the counter. It is not as accurate as weighing each and every shot but the time saved and the very minimal if any change in the shot (to me, others may have differing views) is worth it to me.

I would say go with a rotary pump over a vibe pump, they are more stable in pressure in my hands on with them, they last longer but cost more. They are available in both HX and DB machines.

I also advocate dosed water (automatic machine). You can stop it any time just as you can with a semi auto machine but it is much easier to dial in your shots and keep them consistent when you have a set volume of water each and every time. YMMV.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,089
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013, 6:08am
Subject: Re: Before I upgrade
 

calblacksmith Said:

My grinder auto doses with an internal scale (commercial grinder) so I no longer have a scale on the counter.

Posted August 1, 2013 link

Hey calblacksmith,  What type of grinder is this?
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,842
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013, 6:15am
Subject: Re: Before I upgrade
 

Azkoyen Capriccio
Not my video but it shows the grinder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8nurhcbXb0

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Burner0000
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,089
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013, 7:03am
Subject: Re: Before I upgrade
 

Very nice!! I may get one of these in the future.
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Shawn12
Senior Member
Shawn12
Joined: 19 Oct 2012
Posts: 72
Location: Barrie,ON, Canada
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera BZ07
Grinder: Vario/Virtuoso...
Vac Pot: Yama 5/Balancing Siphon
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013, 7:07am
Subject: Re: Before I upgrade
 

Thx for the responses.  They have created a couple of follow ups.

And just one point of clarity I'm looking at the very new Quick Mill Vetrano (2B) Dual Boiler not he current HX Vetrano. To my knowledge no one in Canada carries it yet.

I guess in terms of my grinder question I should have rephrased. I only have about 17 inches of clearance maybe 17.5.. So to your point Wayne.. What is the best grinder available that will fit? Would love a SJ but it simply won't fit. Looked at the youtube video too looks like a great grinder but no way that will fit and would never get anything that big passed the wife anyway :-) Again will only really be used for espresso and mostly the same 49th Parallel bean right now but plan on getting into roasting my own so will likely be changing beans more frequently in the future.

I landed on the dual boiler vs the HX because it sounds to be a little more idiot proof for brew temp. The Rocket Cellini Evoluzione V2
is about the same price and has a rotary pump so if I'm not going to see any real difference in the cup and both are going to be about as consistent? Maybe I should rethink? The Cellini is beautiful. Are there any HX machines with a rotary pump that I could save a few bucks on over the DB? I can't seem to find one.

Thx again.
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qualin
Senior Member
qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
Posts: 662
Location: Calgary, AB
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3
Grinder: Mazzer Mini Elect. Type A
Vac Pot: Looking to buy
Drip: Manual
Roaster: Considering?
Posted Fri Aug 2, 2013, 6:53pm
Subject: Re: Before I upgrade
 

Shawn12 Said:

And just one point of clarity I'm looking at the very new Quick Mill Vetrano (2B) Dual Boiler not he current HX Vetrano. To my knowledge no one in Canada carries it yet.

Posted August 1, 2013 link

When I was looking at double boiler machines, my choice was the Izzo Alex Duetto. Probably the biggest feature that sold me on this machine was the ability to run off of tank or plumbed in operation and the rotary pump.

Shawn12 Said:

I guess in terms of my grinder question I should have rephrased. I only have about 17 inches of clearance maybe 17.5.. So to your point Wayne.. What is the best grinder available that will fit?

Posted August 1, 2013 link

Well, according to specifications, the Mazzer Mini Electronic is 17.5 inches tall. I own one of these and love it. It's the little brother to the SJ and is a very capable grinder in its own right.

Shawn12 Said:

is about the same price and has a rotary pump so if I'm not going to see any real difference in the cup

Posted August 1, 2013 link

Well, rotary pump machines offer two big things over vibration pumps:

  1. Ability to plumb in the machine without the need for a pressure regulator. (Read the manual and see what the maximum water pressure specification is. My water pressure is 3.5 bars, I don't have issues.)
  2. Operator Sanity. My wife likes how quiet it is compared to my old Silvia.

Other than that, rotary pumps really don't offer a better cup of coffee than a vibe pump machine.

Shawn12 Said:

Are there any HX machines with a rotary pump that I could save a few bucks on over the DB?

Posted August 1, 2013 link

The Izzo Alex is the HX version of the Alex Duetto. I've seen the HX version of this machine sell for nearly $400 less than the DB version.

Good luck!

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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