glashoppah Senior Member Joined: 2 Jan 2003 Posts: 95 Location: Ramona Expertise: Advanced
Espresso: WEGA commercial EVD Grinder: Mazzer Mini Drip: Mr. Coffee Speedbrew Roaster: Hearthware Precision
Posted Wed Feb 5, 2003, 1:47pm Subject: Starbucks goes Superauto!!!!????
Well - there are those that love starbucks (usually the yuppie type) and those that hate them, but I sure was shocked when I went into one the other day for a tamper and found that they'd replaced their La Marz espresso machine with a large pair of Swiss superautomatics. I guess they'll soon be replacing their baristas with mindless drones, and finally you'll just walk up to a window and press a button (after inserting credit card), only to have the cup fall down sideways and the "espresso" dribble all over the side of it.
Well - there are those that love starbucks (usually the yuppie type) and those that hate them, but I sure was shocked when I went into one the other day for a tamper and found that they'd replaced their La Marz espresso machine with a large pair of Swiss superautomatics. I guess they'll soon be replacing their baristas with mindless drones, and finally you'll just walk up to a window and press a button (after inserting credit card), only to have the cup fall down sideways and the "espresso" dribble all over the side of it.
Starbucks has decided that it's cheaper to buy superautos than take the time to train their employees how to properly pull a shot. No joke, this is a corporate decision that will affect ALL stores, most likely before the end of the year. Since SBs aren't a franchise it's not a problem for them to make sweeping changes like that.
That could put an unimaginably huge heck of a lot of (very) used machines on the market ... or in the landfill. Anybody know what's going to happen with them?
Starbucks has decided that it's cheaper to buy superautos than take the time to train their employees how to properly pull a shot. No joke, this is a corporate decision that will affect ALL stores, most likely before the end of the year. Since SBs aren't a franchise it's not a problem for them to make sweeping changes like that.
I don't want to start any kind of word war, Bella, but the above statement "will affect all stores" is not true. A large majority of Starbucks on the planet still use traditional automatics (La Marzocco Lineas and FB70s), and continue to do so, and ESI still takes orders for hundreds of machines from Starbies.
Most of the new franchises in the US and Canada are indeed getting the Black and White super autos, but existing franchises will continue to use the traditional machines and traditional grinders, have them serviced and have them replaced when the time comes... with traditional automatics.
In addition, most of the Starbies locations outside the US and Canada are using the traditional machines. The number of 3 and 4 group Lineas and FB70s in Japan alone is an impressive number.
The major change to existing stores is that many of the 'mini starbucks' locations in malls and such are being switched over to the super autos.
In Vancouver, which has a healthy dose of Starbies locations, I only know of two or three with the Black and Whites, and all are new locations or mall locations. Existing stores still happily chug away on the LM machines, and continue to get new LM machines when their old ones die out (rare) or need major service.
The local Barnes and Noble bookstore has a Starbucks with a superauto. It seems such a shame for a company that is supposed to be grounded in bringing high quality coffee to the masses is resorting to the SA's. I guess that the employee turnover is such that any training they get goes right out the door.
I live a ferry ride away from downtown Seattle, and it seems that all the Barnes & Nobles, Albertsons, Safeways, and airport kiosks have switched to the superautomatics. However, most of the coffeeshops themselves still use the traditional machines.
I read Howard Schultz's book, and he continually emphasized how important "the espresso experience" is to the customer -- meaning the entire process from grind to tamp to pull to pour. That being said, it strikes me as odd that Starbucks would allow *any* "superautomatics" to be used at any coffeeshop with the Starbucks logo on it.
The local Barnes and Noble bookstore has a Starbucks with a superauto. It seems such a shame for a company that is supposed to be grounded in bringing high quality coffee to the masses is resorting to the SA's. I guess that the employee turnover is such that any training they get goes right out the door.
Those Barnes and Noble locations are, AFAIK, not Starbucks' owned locations - they license the logo use and name, but are run by a third party company. They have no real desire to manage high staff turnover (read: better salaries, better management, more respect for employees = lower staff turnover), or train new staff on a constant basis because of their high staff turnover.
We have ten starbucks is Vancouver, WA (not counting the safeways). Almost all of them have gone over to the Superautos. Is there some method to the madness in which ones get the new machines?
I don't want to start any kind of word war, Bella, but the above statement "will affect all stores" is not true. A large majority of Starbucks on the planet still use traditional automatics (La Marzocco Lineas and FB70s), and continue to do so, and ESI still takes orders for hundreds of machines from Starbies.
Most of the new franchises in the US and Canada are indeed getting the Black and White super autos, but existing franchises will continue to use the traditional machines and traditional grinders, have them serviced and have them replaced when the time comes... with traditional automatics.
In addition, most of the Starbies locations outside the US and Canada are using the traditional machines. The number of 3 and 4 group Lineas and FB70s in Japan alone is an impressive number.
The major change to existing stores is that many of the 'mini starbucks' locations in malls and such are being switched over to the super autos.
In Vancouver, which has a healthy dose of Starbies locations, I only know of two or three with the Black and Whites, and all are new locations or mall locations. Existing stores still happily chug away on the LM machines, and continue to get new LM machines when their old ones die out (rare) or need major service.
I may have been over zealous on my time frame for the "switch over" but it will happen eventually, after the expected lifetime of the stores installed equipment most likely. If you consider how much less a store has to worry about, it makes sense (dollars and cents) to not train employees on how to run several pieces of equipment and how to properly pull shots.
Also, Star$ doesn't franchise to individuals but they will consider licensing operations to companies such as B&N. This allows Star$ control over what these stores sell and how they run operations. Star$ ONLY stores sell their full line of products, B&N and licensed operations have limited lines.
There have been three newly opened Star$ in my area in the last 9-12 months and all of them opened with superautos. Two were Star$ stores and one was in a B&N.
I remember a neighbor that was a reel-to-reel audio enthusiast. He said that r-t-r was the only way to experience the TRUE scope of the music in a recording and that anything less was a waste. He thought that cassettes would be a "niche" market.
The general populace inherently lazy, want the quick buck and the easy way of doing things... Superautos in Star$ only strengthens that observation.
Well - it's really more about the fact that most of the folks that patronize Starbucks wouldn't know good coffee from bad - they're there because they're supposed to be. Starbucks equals good coffee to them - the type of people that order "expresso." Most of 'em don't order drinks containing much coffee anyway - in fact, I went in one the other day with an acquaintance and she ordered a new drink that contained no coffee whatsoever. It was some kind of "frappucino" with milk instead of coffee.
What difference does a superauto make to someone ordering a "caramel mocha frap" anyway? Given these dynamics, why bother hiring and training top-notch baristas on very expensive Italian espresso machines?
For me, even though I thought the best of their shots tasted burnt, seeing that superauto in their store will always be the day Starbucks became McStarbucks.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 