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What's the real Third Wave coffee?
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pstam
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Posted Fri Apr 25, 2014, 9:22pm
Subject: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

Many people said that the third wave coffee is "pour over coffee"?
Or I can say that "pour over coffee is the most popularly used in the third wave coffee".

Is this the defination for you as its creater?

 
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IMAWriter
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Posted Fri Apr 25, 2014, 9:58pm
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

pstam Said:

Many people said that the third wave coffee is "pour over coffee"?
Or I can say that "pour over coffee is the most popularly used in the third wave coffee".

Is this the defination for you as its creater?

Posted April 25, 2014 link

Hi Peter! Been a while.

I believe you could say the 3rd Wave believes in lighter roasts, and our 3rd wave cafes in my city also tend to go more toward Single origin coffees (1 varietal only), as opposed to blends. Yes, pour-over is featured, though not mores than espresso prepared drinks. Hario V2, Kalita, Chemex, etc are very popular because they showcase these lighter roasts well, allowing the sweetness to balance the acidity.
One cafe here has a 3 group Slayer, and can really pressure profile those lighter roasts, so as to eliminate the overly "lemon" acidity many find to bright, myself included.
However, when one sips a perfectly drawn Ethiopian  with a layer of strawberry flavor, it's just so excellent!

Both these cafes also have a medium or medium/dark roast for the larger milk drinks like lattes.

Does this help?
I'm sure others will further illuminate, or correct my mistakes!

 
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pstam
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Posted Wed May 7, 2014, 2:48am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

Another question.
What do you think about the "tastes of coffee", out of that there are fruit acidities, chocolate, etc., from coffee.  Do you think that coffee has its own taste or tastes?

 
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CMIN
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Posted Wed May 7, 2014, 7:03am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

Like Rob said, in the U.S. Third Wave means places focusing on lighter/bright coffee for mainly single origin, not necessarily pour over. Personally to me, Third Wave isn't coffee... their secretly grinding frozen lemons and extracting them ;p ... since that's what it taste like lol
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barkingburro
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Posted Wed May 7, 2014, 7:57am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

pstam Said:

What do you think about the "tastes of coffee", out of that there are fruit acidities, chocolate, etc., from coffee.  Do you think that coffee has its own taste or tastes?

Posted May 7, 2014 link

Coffee certainly has its own traditional and widely agreed-upon taste. But that flavor derives almost entirely from the roast itself--the dark roasted particles and caramelized sugars--rather than the stuff extracted from the core of the bean. That traditional flavor profile includes chocolate, caramel, nuts, ash, some woody or tobacco notes, various spices, etc., that in the right combinations are what people would universally recognize as coffee flavor. I haven't convinced myself that there is such a thing as an elementally pure coffee flavor, much in the same way there is no such thing as an elementally pure curry flavor. You'll always be able to break it down into other flavor components.

With some of the worst Third Wave coffee dogma (that's right, I went there), you will see practitioners placing roasty flavors such as chocolate, nuts, and caramel in the undesirable category. But this is only because they think the presence of those flavors covers up the true unique origin flavors that gave everyone such a great sense of discovery and re-energized the independent coffee industry in the United States. We went through a period of excitement, such as, "Aha! Blueberries!," that helped define where the Third Wave got its greatest momentum.

But now we have some light roasters more or less consistently producing coffee with the flavor of lemons, and these people apparently haven't gotten over the novelty of it. But to my mind, consistently producing lemony coffee by under-roasting is just as wrong as consistently producing ashy coffee by over-roasting. The best roasters would be those who can still bring out the unique origin flavors without necessarily sacrificing the traditional roasty flavors as well. Let's call these roasters the ones who strive for complexity. Yes, you might get a coffee that tastes like strawberries, or peaches. But I would hope that when so many people are complaining about coffee that tastes like lemons, the roasters would take notice, and perhaps question whether such strong citric acidity is uniquely characteristic of that coffee's origins, or more commonly characteristic of a failed roasting technique.

Addendum/caveat: I still haven't encountered these lemony snickety roasters... only heard of them. Are they real or just exaggeration?

 
- Michael
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brianl
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Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 9:28am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

There are definitely a lot of roasters doing the lemon thing in chicago. I personally enjoy it as i'm not really able to produce this with my home setup and have always been a fan of lemon. I have not had it so bad that it was too sour, however.
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IMAWriter
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Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 9:35am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

barkingburro Said:

Addendum/caveat: i still haven't encountered these lemony snickety roasters... only heard of them. Are they real or just exaggeration?

Posted May 7, 2014 link

Yes, REAL. I'm currently waiting another few days before re-evaluating a HIGHLY scored blend that, 4 days post roast was undrinkable pulled from my Strega at several different temperatures and doses. I, of course realize a good 7 days post roast is the fair way to evaluate, but I've many SO's and blends that gave me a more than decent experience 3-4 days post roast.
BTW, I used 2 different grinders, a Baratza Forte (flat blade) and an OE Pharos, 68mm conical. I would expect the result from the Pharos, but not so much from the Forte.

 
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CMIN
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Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 9:42am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

brianl Said:

There are definitely a lot of roasters doing the lemon thing in chicago. I personally enjoy it as i'm not really able to produce this with my home setup and have always been a fan of lemon. I have not had it so bad that it was too sour, however.

Posted May 9, 2014 link

could depend on ones "taste", to me lemon is sour period, real lemon, or shot. Love real lemons, as a shot though, no thanks lol. I was at Intelly and thought the shots were horrible, granted I don't like Blackcat either for that matter as it has the weirdest sour acidic taste of almost any coffee I've ever had, couldn't even pull a decent shot at home after 2lbs let alone their shop. But at Metropolis loved every single shot/coffee, even more medium s.o. and blends had an awesome balance and chocolate/nutty/caramel like taste. Shots at Intelly were like someone dropped 10 lemon tarts in my mouth. Same for Bow Truss and Gaslight, didn't have any bad shots/coffee there either.
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IMAWriter
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Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 9:56am
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

CMIN Said:

could depend on ones "taste", to me lemon is sour period, real lemon, or shot. Love real lemons, as a shot though, no thanks lol. I was at Intelly and thought the shots were horrible, granted I don't like Blackcat either for that matter as it has the weirdest sour acidic taste of almost any coffee I've ever had, couldn't even pull a decent shot at home after 2lbs let alone their shop. But at Metropolis loved every single shot/coffee, even more medium s.o. and blends had an awesome balance and chocolate/nutty/caramel like taste. Shots at Intelly were like someone dropped 10 lemon tarts in my mouth. Same for Bow Truss and Gaslight, didn't have any bad shots/coffee there either.

Posted May 9, 2014 link

I believe this is a cue of "The Emperor's New Clothes."
Peter, if there is a Chinese translation for the above fairy tale, read it and you'll know of what I speak.

Why no one wants to admit that in MANY CASES a lemony shot often indicates a roast's development was somehow truncated.
Pull a YEMEN coffee before the las snaps of 1st, and you can have a VERY interesting cup. Do that with acidic Guatemalan, a very hard bean and (IMO) not so interesting, unless you like a super high toned citrus profile.
Before I get trashed, I have been home-roasting a LONG time, on several different devices, have studied coffee beans from way back (thanks Ken Davids).

Some folks employ a "one roast profile fits all" approach. This is a deadly mistake.

 
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brianl
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Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 1:50pm
Subject: Re: What's the real Third Wave coffee?
 

CMIN Said:

could depend on ones "taste", to me lemon is sour period, real lemon, or shot. Love real lemons, as a shot though, no thanks lol. I was at Intelly and thought the shots were horrible, granted I don't like Blackcat either for that matter as it has the weirdest sour acidic taste of almost any coffee I've ever had, couldn't even pull a decent shot at home after 2lbs let alone their shop. But at Metropolis loved every single shot/coffee, even more medium s.o. and blends had an awesome balance and chocolate/nutty/caramel like taste. Shots at Intelly were like someone dropped 10 lemon tarts in my mouth. Same for Bow Truss and Gaslight, didn't have any bad shots/coffee there either.

Posted May 9, 2014 link

No complaints from me. I dislike Intelly espresso and I'm not a fan of Metropolis either (I'm talking the flagship coffee houses). I have also given up on blackcat at home, haha. I don't think Intelly makes them intentionally sour, I just don't find their Barista's that good (ever since they blew up in popularity) at pulling shots and I wouldn't be surprised if its just in error.

I can't tell if you are saying bow truss and gaslight were sour or not. The good thing about those two cafes is they have a single origin and a traditional blend. I absolutely adore bow truss and gaslight is good but its a bunch of hipsters hogging all the seats.

Now if we are talking non-espresso, my favorite brewed coffee comes from a little ole place called Big Shoulders. I don't think i've ever gotten brewed coffee at intell, metropolis, bow truss or gaslight to be honest, haha. Maybe just a couple sips of my girlfriend's drinks. I did try iced coffee at metropolis once and it was the worth thing i've ever consumed in my life.
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