Posted Wed Nov 10, 2004, 2:02pm Subject: Re: What do you keep your fresh coffee in?
nyc_crema Said:
Right now a pound of coffee lasts 5 days since I pull about 20 shots a day, most of them (all!) thrown out (i'm just beginning with Silvia and Rocky). I can see a pound of beens going 2 weeks otherwise, so I don't think clear glasses would make much of a difference. They look so nice too!
I'll have to do research and also some of my own testing.
What the heck, 20 shots a day waste?? What exactly are you trying to accomplish that can't happen in 20 shots in a single day? If one shot doesn't exhibit the qualities you desire, then change it; the next shot should be closer. As far as I can tell you have four variables under your control: grind, tamp, dosage, and temperature. I'd think you'd permute about every single acceptable combination of variables (within reason) in under 20 shots, or at least zero in enough to not require the waste of 20 a day. Anyway... :-)
That said, 20 shots a day for 5 days is about 1800 grams of coffee if you're dosing about 18 grams per double. That's almost 4 pounds...
Be sure to read the links there also, not just the thread. You're not pulling a complete vacuum, & due to the internal chemical changes/decompositions going on., & the higher internal pressures within the bean itself.., you are actually hastening the natural degassing process that occurs over a few to several days.
Due to the lower pressure area within your container, you are actually evacuating the volatile aromatics & artifically speeding up the natural process by having Co2 outgassing occur sooner & oxidative staling occur sooner! by the repeated jar openings & evacuations.The pressure differential will flow from the higher bean pressure to the containers lower pressure area.
When the jars are opened once, twice a day or whatever., & you're using your Tilia Foodsaver or a hand vacuum pump.., you are making the situation worse. IMO of course. {;-)
Listen to Craig, vacuum is b-b-b-b-baaaaaaaad to the bean!!! You could try displacing the oxygen with nitrogen under low pressure, that's what Illy does, but it's not going to make it last that much longer. Trust me, I've got cans of Illy up the ying yang. The best way to preserve your beans is to use them, and the sooner the better! ;p
I have read that light can affect the beans, but that isn't proof. I use foil to cover my storage jars, but they are not really on display. One option that springs to mind is to keep "stunt" jars that look nice, and keep your good beans out of the light.
nyc_crema Senior Member Joined: 13 Oct 2004 Posts: 1,602 Location: New York City Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Alexia, Silvia Grinder: Mazzer Mini Roaster: Gorilla, Intelligentsia,...
Posted Wed Nov 10, 2004, 9:44pm Subject: Re: What do you keep your fresh coffee in?
Descartes Said:
What the heck, 20 shots a day waste?? What exactly are you trying to accomplish that can't happen in 20 shots in a single day? If one shot doesn't exhibit the qualities you desire, then change it; the next shot should be closer. As far as I can tell you have four variables under your control: grind, tamp, dosage, and temperature. I'd think you'd permute about every single acceptable combination of variables (within reason) in under 20 shots, or at least zero in enough to not require the waste of 20 a day. Anyway... :-)
That said, 20 shots a day for 5 days is about 1800 grams of coffee if you're dosing about 18 grams per double. That's almost 4 pounds...
20 shots was an exaggeration - I do probably 10-14 and not EVERYDAY but probably every other day. I have a shitty plastic tamper, so I try different tamping methods. I also try different times in the brew cycle as well as different grinds. Furthermore, I try different beans. Take those variables individual, and you get an expoential number of trails. I'm brand new at making espressos, and dedicated to the scientific method, so you can see how I run through a pound in 4 days easy.
Of course, once I get it down, it'll be 4 shots a day max.
Oh and its 14grams, not 18. I have a double basket.
Nahhh I don't have room for useless jars. I'm going to keep them in the clear glass ones for a while till I get something else. Honestly, I don't think light penetrating the beans for a week or so *really* matters. Its also fake light (light bulbs), not real sun light. I'm going to do some real research on this and report back in a week or so.
Posted Wed Nov 10, 2004, 9:50pm Subject: Re: What do you keep your fresh coffee in?
nyc_crema Said:
Whoa calm down Descartes =P
20 shots was an exaggeration - I do probably 10-14 and not EVERYDAY but probably every other day. I have a shitty plastic tamper, so I try different tamping methods. I also try different times in the brew cycle as well as different grinds. Furthermore, I try different beans. Take those variables individual, and you get an expoential number of trails. I'm brand new at making espressos, and dedicated to the scientific method, so you can see how I run through a pound in 4 days easy.
Of course, once I get it down, it'll be 4 shots a day max.
Oh and its 14grams, not 18. I have a double basket.
LOL, sorry man. I sometimes come off as a little antagonistic, but I don't mean to.
Regarding the weight: It's usually between 14 and 18 grams depending on the basket, but I went with 18 grams as it was on the high end of the guess. I personally grind 18 grams for each double, but I lose at least 1 on waste (I'm working on reducing it if I can).
Posted Thu Nov 11, 2004, 9:41am Subject: Re: What do you keep your fresh coffee in?
twomartinis Said:
Listen to Craig, vacuum is b-b-b-b-baaaaaaaad to the bean!!! You could try displacing the oxygen with nitrogen under low pressure, that's what Illy does, but it's not going to make it last that much longer. Trust me, I've got cans of Illy up the ying yang. The best way to preserve your beans is to use them, and the sooner the better! ;p
nyc_crema Senior Member Joined: 13 Oct 2004 Posts: 1,602 Location: New York City Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Alexia, Silvia Grinder: Mazzer Mini Roaster: Gorilla, Intelligentsia,...
Posted Thu Nov 11, 2004, 12:00pm Subject: Re: What do you keep your fresh coffee in?
Descartes Said:
Regarding the weight: It's usually between 14 and 18 grams depending on the basket, but I went with 18 grams as it was on the high end of the guess. I personally grind 18 grams for each double, but I lose at least 1 on waste (I'm working on reducing it if I can)..
I used to have a $100 digital scale that measure into the 1/2 grams, but it broke some time ago. Since then I refuse to buy another one since it'll lead to me being overly anal about espresso (I'm alread anal enough!). I just fill the basket up, swipe the heaping part off the top and tamp. I think putting exactly 14 or 14.5 or 17.5 or 18.03 grams each time is just a step I can avoid. I'm realizing that CoffeeGeeks are anal in their owns way, and comprehensively it'd make the most anal barasta possible. Thats why CG.com is so great, becuase it has massive opinions on every single tiny aspect of espresso making. Maybe one day they'll be a board plug in that'll have some sort of AI that could form empirical data on various subjects like "how to tamp at 30lbs into a double La Marz basket using Italian Roast".
Posted Thu Nov 11, 2004, 12:12pm Subject: Re: What do you keep your fresh coffee in?
nyc_crema Said:
I used to have a $100 digital scale that measure into the 1/2 grams, but it broke some time ago. Since then I refuse to buy another one since it'll lead to me being overly anal about espresso (I'm alread anal enough!). I just fill the basket up, swipe the heaping part off the top and tamp. I think putting exactly 14 or 14.5 or 17.5 or 18.03 grams each time is just a step I can avoid. I'm realizing that CoffeeGeeks are anal in their owns way, and comprehensively it'd make the most anal barasta possible. Thats why CG.com is so great, becuase it has massive opinions on every single tiny aspect of espresso making. Maybe one day they'll be a board plug in that'll have some sort of AI that could form empirical data on various subjects like "how to tamp at 30lbs into a double La Marz basket using Italian Roast".
The problem, for me, comes with the "just fill the basket part." I don't know how much to grind, so I either grind too much or too little. It's just so much easier to weigh the amount, grind it, dose it, and tamp. If I were pulling 50 shots a day, then obviously I wouldn't be messing with the scale, but in trying to limit stale grinds or waste it's a good thing.
For what it's worth, you can get a Pelouze 5lb digital scale with 1g sensitivity for ~$30 at Office Depot, Staples, etc.
Posted Thu Nov 11, 2004, 5:04pm Subject: Re: What do you keep your fresh coffee in?
NYCC,
When you look up ANAL in the CoffeeGeek Book of Terms it says ....
Anal- The word used by some outsiders looking at the CG site or referring to a CG. CoffeeGeeks know they really mean passionate and usually swap passionate for the word anal to transmit their true feelings.
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