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Espresso: General Discussion
Simply put: Espronography
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Discussions > Espresso > General > Simply put:...  
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andys
Senior Member
andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 857
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Sun Sep 26, 2004, 6:50pm
Subject: Re: Simply put: Espronography
 

kaanage Said:

Did you compare 2 shots with same grind, dose and shot time (ie the bottomless shot ends up being larger vol but same weight)?

Posted September 22, 2004 link

OK, I've done more comparison testing between coffee made with nekkid vs conventional portafilters. The short answer is that the only real difference I find is the greater amount of crema in the nekkid shot.

Shots that are ground, dosed and tamped the same, pulled for the same amount of time, with the same amount of coffee and the same amount of water delivered by the machine, weigh virtually the same (with the usual shot-to-shot variation, of course). There is no significant difference in Total Dissolved Solids. With my equipment, beans and technique, the nekkid shot are approx 15% higher in gross volume (liquid plus crema) when measured immediately after the final drops have fallen into the cup. But if you let all the crema collapse, the net volume of the nekkid vs conventional shots would be virtually identical.

I could not distinguish any flavor difference per se, except that the nekkid shots, with their larger head of crema,  seemed "lighter" and occasionally seemed "fruitier." This is not surprising, considering that the crema is light and it helps deliver aromas to one's nasal apparatus.

The nekkid shot is obviously not going to suffer from off-flavors due to coffee residue building up in the portafilter bottom and spout. And if you want to make a nekkid shot taste more like a conventional shot, let it sit for an extra half a minute or so before trying it. The excess crema will collapse and you'll be back to just about where a conventional portafilter would have delivered it.

That's what I found so far. YMMV.

None of this refutes the tremendous training value that results from the barista's ability to monitor the nekkid extraction so closely.

andys: pour 6c.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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MPantani
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MPantani
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 124
Location: Seattle
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Millennium
Grinder: Pasquini Moka
Drip: Never
Posted Fri Oct 29, 2004, 10:21am
Subject: Re: Simply put: Espronography
 

A couple of thoughts.  I'm an amateur, many of you are pros, so maybe take these with a grain of salt...

There have been a couple of comments about how a naked portafilter may not retain heat like a regular one.  Maybe someone needs to create a portafilter that doesn't have a removable basket, or where the basket touches the sides of the portafilter.  This would maximize heat retention in the basket, wouldn't it?  Besides, who needs a removable basket in a naked portafilter?  

I've also read comments about how the basket flexes under the intense pressure of the machine.  Could it be that the tamped puck cracks as it flexes, and this creates channeling?  It makes sense.  Yet another reason to create a solid pf/basket.

Your thoughts?  Any machinist/welders out there?
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andys
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andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 857
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Sat Oct 30, 2004, 10:55am
Subject: Re: Simply put: Espronography
 

MPantani Said:

Maybe someone needs to create a portafilter that doesn't have a removable basket, or where the basket touches the sides of the portafilter.  This would maximize heat retention in the basket, wouldn't it?  Besides, who needs a removable basket in a naked portafilter?  

I've also read comments about how the basket flexes under the intense pressure of the machine.  Could it be that the tamped puck cracks as it flexes, and this creates channeling?  It makes sense.  Yet another reason to create a solid pf/basket.

Posted October 29, 2004 link

The bottom of the basket flexes and eventually cracks. At that point, it must be replaced. It's a lot cheaper to replace a basket compared to a hypothetical one-piece portafilter/basket.

Also, replaceable baskets allow you to try various shapes and hole configurations in single, double and triple sizes....

 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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brokencup
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brokencup
Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,617
Location: Atlanta
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Spaziale S1
Grinder: Cimbali Junior, Infinity
Drip: Technivorm
Roaster: RK Drum
Posted Sat Oct 30, 2004, 11:09am
Subject: Re: Simply put: Espronography
 

Thanks for the new desk top background picture, Mark.

Bob
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MPantani
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MPantani
Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 124
Location: Seattle
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Millennium
Grinder: Pasquini Moka
Drip: Never
Posted Sat Oct 30, 2004, 3:40pm
Subject: Re: Simply put: Espronography
 

andys Said:

The bottom of the basket flexes and eventually cracks. At that point, it must be replaced. It's a lot cheaper to replace a basket compared to a hypothetical one-piece portafilter/basket.

Also, replaceable baskets allow you to try various shapes and hole configurations in single, double and triple sizes....

Posted October 30, 2004 link


You make good points, but with what many people on this website pay for their coffee passion, $50 for a dedicated portafilter isn't a big expense.
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espressobsessed
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espressobsessed
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 798
Location: Saskatoon, SK
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: La Marzocco Strada & GB5
Grinder: LM Vulcano, Anfim, Ditting
Vac Pot: Hario Deco
Drip: Metal filter pourover, FP &...
Roaster: Ambex ym-5 with Drumroaster...
Posted Sat Oct 30, 2004, 6:07pm
Subject: Re: Simply put: Espronography
 

The quantitative benefits vs qualitative benefits are what is at heart here. When using a naked PF, the results are qualitative: the espresso tastes better (qualitative) as has been shown in many tests (using tasters, on Malachi's page) despite some differences in basket temperature (quantitative).  

What are you most worried about?  How the espresso tastes, or what shows up in your thermocouple's readout?

 
blog: espressolab.ca
work: museocoffee.com

owner/barista at Museo Coffee
Saskatoon SK Canada
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malachi
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malachi
Joined: 5 May 2002
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Location: SFCA
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Espresso: Monster Mia (for now)_
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Vac Pot: Not any more
Drip: never
Roaster: Ecco, Stumptown, Intelli,...
Posted Sun Oct 31, 2004, 10:22am
Subject: Re: Simply put: Espronography
 

Picture of WBC Champ Tim Wendelboe using the Naked Portafilter for the first time
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andys
Senior Member
andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 857
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Sun Oct 31, 2004, 11:07am
Subject: Re: Simply put: Espronography
 

malachi Said:

Picture of WBC Champ Tim Wendelboe using the Naked Portafilter for the first time

Posted October 31, 2004 link


Nice shot. I like the intent look on his face.

 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
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Damocles
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Joined: 23 Aug 2004
Posts: 103
Location: Sweden
Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Nov 1, 2004, 5:51am
Subject: Re: Simply put: Espronography
 

I started thinking yesterday, i dont have either time or money to do a naked PF right now, but i got one thing.
I noticed that on my Gaggia handle, there is enough room below the portafilter for the extraction to float free, so i just removed the spouts. With a good extration, the crema never touches the PF, just like on a naked PF. Or rather, it touches the PF in the beginning before it stabilizes in the center, and then it comes straight down the hole without touching its walls.

So if its really a improvement in taste, you can get most of it just by screwing off the doublespout. On the other hand, you lack the pure estehics of a naked PF. Oh well, another time, another PF.
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PureArabica
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PureArabica
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 267
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: Professional

Drip: Chemex, Chemex, Chemex
Roaster: GotHots
Posted Tue Nov 9, 2004, 3:11pm
Subject: Re: Simply put: Espronography
 

Hey guys, great info and pics =)

I just got a new Wega Atlas, and was wanting to get the portafilter mod done to the extra portafilter that came with the machine. The portafilters are fairly thin and I was wondering... can I put completely different portafilters in the machine(A la la la marzzoco style)? As long as it's the same size? It is an E-61 grouphead. And the portafilter size is 58mm. Any experiance with this?

Thanks,
Nick
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