I'll have to check them out this weekend...even if they don't have a Verismo (joking) I've been really happy with the little local places up here so far. I went to Long Bottoms last week and had a great cup. It's nice to have a lot of really good compitition in a small area. When I lived in "The O.C." there were pretty much two choices...Starbucks, or...um...the other Starbucks.
The local Starbucks with a Super still pulls a better shot than 99% of the places close to where I am, at least SB's knows a double is not 4 friggin ounces. I hate to choose them over some struggling independent, but if the small local place(s) chooses to serve mediocre product. Then they dont get my hard earned money.
Ain't this the sad truth! I went into one of the local shops to get some beans and actually considered getting an espresso or a cappuccino. Then, I saw their nasty looking portafilters, work area, and caked on burnt milk on the steam wand and decided to pass. I asked for the "freshest espresso beans they had" (and they roast daily during the week) and received some rather oily, had-to-be-at-least-6-days-old beans.
Disappointing to say the least.
Back to home-roasting I go, and I shant order espresso-based drinks out anymore, at least not for anything other than a quick shot of caffeine. The last one before this was at a shop in Iowa that roasted (and obviously blended) their own--it tasted like dirt in a cup. Yum! I couldn't even finish that one, and I was practically falling asleep at the wheel. . . really needed caffeine, but couldn't torture my tongue any further. Don't these people realize what a road hazard they are creating with their horrific coffee?
The local Barnes and Noble bookstore has a Starbucks with a superauto. It seems such a shame for a company that is supposed to be grounded in bringing high quality coffee to the masses is resorting to the SA's. I guess that the employee turnover is such that any training they get goes right out the door.
I just came from the grocery store. Out of curiosity I checked a bag of Starbucks beans. It didn't give a roast date, but did claim the beans were good until May 21, 2005. Perhaps Starbucks claim to bringing high quality coffee to the masses is over? By the way, the beans were $9.50 for 12oz, about 25% more than I paid today for Café Vivace beans that were roasted two days ago.
BellaJava Said:
I remember a neighbor that was a reel-to-reel audio enthusiast. He said that r-t-r was the only way to experience the TRUE scope of the music in a recording and that anything less was a waste. He thought that cassettes would be a "niche" market.
The general populace inherently lazy, want the quick buck and the easy way of doing things... Superautos in Star$ only strengthens that observation. Bella
Do you think there might be a difference between coffee and music? I think that most people couldn't tell the difference between the sound quality of reel-to-reel and cassettes (that is, on the speakers that most people own). Plus the convenience of cassettes is too much to overcome. I never saw an audiophile with a reel-to-reel in his car. With coffee the same principles apply but with different results. The convenience difference is less (I get the coffee "automatically" from the barista either way) but the quality difference is much greater. Anyone can tell the difference between a cappuccino from a great barista and the typical Starbucks drink.
An independent café now has a much greater opportunity to compete on quality and taste. On another thread a café owner was asking how to compete with Starbucks. Someone replied that he should offer a free espresso drink to anyone bringing in a Starbucks cup. Whether that works economically I don't know, but there is no way someone could walk from Starbucks down the street to Zoka and not taste a difference.
I see a similarity to other markets. McDonalds will always make more money than the local place selling a great burger for $5.00. I'm not a burger expert but I see that there seems to be a strong market for a great $5.00 burger. Toyota will always sell more Camrys than BMW will sell 3-series. Isn't the key figuring out a way to educate the customer about the quality difference? Competing in the coffee market has an advantage over burgers and cars: that cup at Café Intelligentsia or Vivace is the same price as the one from Starbucks! Maybe less. Shouldn't every café owner in the country be thrilled about Starbucks' standards going down? BMW can only fanaticize that Toyota would increase the price of a Camry to $40,000 and reduce the quality to that of a Chevy.
well, Billy Wilson won 5th place when he worked there :-)
I read you mentioned long bottom coffee, I got a small 1.5 oz. package of preground from my uncle, and was obligated to drink it. It actually wan't as bad as one would think. I think it was "paint the town red" blend or something...
I'd say something about Superautos but I think Jon's picture pretty much covers all the bases there.
OK, OK - I'll say something - I've never met anyone who even casually drinks espresso who couldn't tell you whether a shot came from the superautos or not. The body is light, the crema is thin, the result is never undrinkable (which many of the small stores are), and never good (which a few of the small stores are). We're not talking identifying the vineyard here, we're talking about a robot making food. Couldn't tell the difference? Yikes.
Here's an experiment for you. Next time you fly anywhere out of Portland, get a double from the Espresso People right in the middle of the terminal, just past security, with the big SuperAuto. Now, proceed down a few gates to your left and get a double from the Esspresso People with the LM. Same beans, same location. It's not a subtle difference.
On Sbux beans in grocery stores -
I'd had pretty good luck with these being consistently better than other grocery store beans until the last month or two. I travel weekly, and it was getting to be a pain to grind and pack my Zoka beans from home, so I just stop at a grocery store on the way to the hotel and pick up a pound of Starbucks. As the "expiration dates" have gotten closer and closer to current (now the coffee I buy only has only a YEAR left to go), the coffee has taken a decided plunge down the quality ladder. The coffe I bought yesterday has that same sort of papery cardboard smell I associate with pre-ground folgers. I made it, and it was better than the hotel filter packs, but not by much.
Sbux has done great things for the coffee community, and, like a lot of folks here, I admire what they've accomplished. Were it not for Starbucks, I'd still be drinking Chock Full o Nuts. The current free fall in quality, however, has me scratching my head. I guess they've pushed coffee people out of management at some level, and the results are just starting to trickle down.
I'm pleased that Starbucks does what they do even though I don't prefer their coffee. They serve their market. I'm also pleased that Hyundai and Kia make inexpensive cars, that McDonalds can charge $10 to feed a family of four, and that Target sells reasonably priced clothes.
It seems to me that Starbucks raises coffee appreciation from a Folgers level to a moderate level. Beyond that its up to the specialty coffee sellers. For those of you living in a city where great coffee is new, where Starbucks has started peppering the town with shops, I say take advantage of the opportunity. Starbucks will educate the populace. There is a large market of people who seek quality above Starbucks level and that market doesn't appear to be served very well. Serve it. Make gobs of money. Smile.
Hi, i'm new around here and i'm a new barista and yes i work for Starbucks. From what i've read i'm afraid i feel a little disheartened as my store has an automatic verismo machine. I'm not a 16/17 year old stopover (although i do wear Gap jeans) and i want to be a great barista. I love coffee and i want to make people happy with the drinks i serve. Does anyone have any ideas how i can become a great barista given this situation?
As far as the quality of Starbucks goes i think the emphasis seems to not be focused on the coffee but most of the training is on the customer service. I have completed my training and I have to say that it doesnt really cover alot on coffee. You're given the basics like the parts of the shot and how to make the coffees up but the machines kind of make it a no brainer. Starbucks mostly seem to be focused on their customer service and i think it leaves alot of the stuff you guys are talking about out.
Over here in England we dont get starbucks coffee in the supermarkets. if anyone wants any, they buy it and we grind it at point of sale. All i know is that it lasts a month in an airtight container. I'm afraid things dont look too good for my career do they? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
azimouth4 , don't let these guys get you down. Starbucks has gone through a creepy little change in the last few years that a lot of us don't agree with. They did away with a lot of the core espresso bar training and threw in a lot of service with a smile BS. A lot of us were mad as the change swept through, but you do what you have to do. My advice is to keep reading all the front of the house books and playing with the equipment as much as you can. If you really have the passion for great coffee and great bar drinks, I promise that you are in the right company. Keep that passion and share it with your other partners. You may not know it from the stuff you read on on these forums, but there a countless people like you that work for Starbucks. People who know, love, and have a deep passion for coffee. You should be happy and proud to work for a place that sells some of the BEST whole bean coffee in the world and is able to deliver it to people who, otherwise, would never have had a chance to try it. The whole thing about the superauto...well, we'd all love to have the LM back, but it just isn't gonna happen. That doesn't mean you can't make a really high quality drink though. The Verismo is perfectly capable of pulling a shot that 99% of your customers will be pleased with. The other 1% can go down the street to the indy place and support them. Its that healthy compitition and debate that makes our industry so much fun.
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