Dual Cam Grind Adjustment gives the user the ability to adjust the burrs at a Macro level with one lever, and then on a Micro lever with another lever to fine-tune.... This will prove to be pretty helpful for people who are planning on using this grinder for more than just one application (ie espresso or press)
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 4,663 Location: Vancouver Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Frankenstein'ed LM Linea Grinder: Anfim Super Caimano Vac Pot: 1922 Silex Drip: Krups Moka Brew Roaster: Hottop
Posted Wed May 7, 2008, 12:55pm Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
JonathanSwan Said:
Dual Cam Grind Adjustment gives the user the ability to adjust the burrs at a Macro level with one lever, and then on a Micro lever with another lever to fine-tune.... This will prove to be pretty helpful for people who are planning on using this grinder for more than just one application (ie espresso or press)
Totally agree with this - one concern I had was somehow, the micro adjustment would get fudged up (moved, changed) if you kept sliding the macro back and forth between say, espresso and press, but Kyle showed me how once the micro's locked in, it's set, no matter what changes you make to the macro slider.
That's one of the real perks on this grinder - you can super-dial in your espresso grind... get familiar with the "clicks" on the sliders (or just put a mark on your grinder so you know which "click" area your espresso setting should be).... use it for espresso, then one afternoon, friends want some press love, and you just slide the macro up to that setting and grind away, with no worries that you need to re-dial in the grinder for 'spro again. Just slide it back down to your previous spot on the macro side, and it's back to that old setting.
One question about this though that I won't know the answer to until I get a test unit or speak to Kyle Andereson - does the slider work with beans in the hopper just as efficiently as when without?
Re, where does this fit in the realm of grinders? Well, I haven't done hands on testing of this grinder yet, so I can't make any definitive judgements on the grind quality, the durability, the value vs. price.
That said, I'd have to say this is a better multipurpose grinder on paper than anything else out there, including my $1500 Ditting KF-804 when you take into account grinding for espresso. The KF-804 is a cupping / press / bag grinder and while ideally suited for those tasks, it's not so good for espresso, and I blame the pressed burrs for that (KF uses pressed burrs, which is changing this year - they are going to milled burrs (finally!!!!!)).
The Vario has a 2.0-2.4g per second grinding rate. That's impressive - you can grind enough for a 4 cup press in 10 seconds, and enough for a double shot in 8 seconds. It's not as speedy as a KF, or an Anfim or a Super Joly, but faster by a hair or two than a Mazzer Mini.
It has a portafilter fork option included in the box, their "portaholder" replacement for the bin - effectively turning this into a doserless espresso grinder. It's got a digital timer with 3 seperate presets, which puts it in league with the digital timer Macap espresso grinders... but it doesn't clump like the Macaps do (I assume - I asked the question, was told no clumping).
I should let in a secret here. I was involved in a consultation last year with Baratza on their existing line of grinders, and at the end of the consultation and hands on brewing and training, Kyle showed me, on paper, this grinder. My biggest complaint was the complexity of the controls (all the buttons), which actually has been improved. If that's all one has to complain about, that's not too bad. To see the product now in preproduction format's pretty exciting. Can't wait to actually try the grinder.
raisin Senior Member Joined: 15 Nov 2007 Posts: 73 Location: nj Expertise: I love coffee
Grinder: Virtuosa Roaster: Behmor
Posted Wed May 7, 2008, 8:38pm Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
It seems that Kyle has cut a fine line between appliance geekery and professional utility, that said i wish the price point was just a tad lower...
The feature set seems impressive, and once explained, all those buttons seem to be put to good use. I guess it's reproduceability on the finest cuts that will be the ultimate test, can't wait for the first reviews. Any word on when you're getting that sample unit? :)
Posted Thu May 8, 2008, 5:48am Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
Wow, the Vario looks amazing. On paper, it looks like it would replace 2 grinders for me, except I have one grinder at the office...
A couple of years ago I bought a Virtuso and after a month and a half realized the Virtuso just did not do so well with espresso. I think it is the plastic mount for the burrset. So I got a Mazzer mini, which works quite well for espresso.
The Virtuoso would work great for espresso, if the burrs were mounted differently. The Vario looks like it has a mounting more like the Mazzer.
Posted Thu May 8, 2008, 6:12am Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
shaneo Said:
A couple of years ago I bought a Virtuso and after a month and a half realized the Virtuso just did not do so well with espresso. I think it is the plastic mount for the burrset.
I imagine it also has something to do with the lack of a fineness control. The stepped settings don't allow for fine adjustments in the low range, where they are most vital. I assume that is why the Vario also has a micro-fineness control as well as a stepped adjustment (the "dual-cam" feature).
Posted Thu May 8, 2008, 10:23am Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
svyerkgeniiy Said:
I imagine it also has something to do with the lack of a fineness control. The stepped settings don't allow for fine adjustments in the low range, where they are most vital. I assume that is why the Vario also has a micro-fineness control as well as a stepped adjustment (the "dual-cam" feature).
What I noticed was this, it seemed to work good initially out of the box. I had to have the setting cranked most of the way down, under 10, say 7 after a couple of weeks I had to set it at 6. The fineness control is important too. The infinite setting of the Mazzer was a factor too. I found that a click on the Virtuoso would make a 10+ second difference in the epsresso extraction time.
Pressed burrs are hard-formed by (I assume) a) pouring a mould, then using hydraulics or other such stuff to press metal into a shape.
Milled burrs on the other hand are physically cut into shape, and sharpened. Much, much sharper.
Pressed burrs are the main reason why those $30, $50 burr grinders suck so much - they pulverize beans into dust.
The KF804 Burrs are pressed, but much higher tolerances. Still, it's a sad state of affairs - everyone in the biz knows they should have been milled, and now after this summer, they will be on new models, and supposedly current owners can buy milled burrs to put in their existing models.
There are a few different forming methods that could be called "pressing" and it's true that some would produce inferior results for grinder burrs, but there is one very notable powder-metallurgy method called HIP (hot isostatic pressing). HIP-ing produces some of the best quality metal you can find, more uniform in composition and properties than wrought products (like the milled burrs we usually like to see). Carbide cutting tools are commonly made by HIP and (presumably) so are the ceramic burrs in swift grinders.
Since "pressing" can encompass the best and the worst metals we should find out more before passing judgement.....
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