Posted Thu May 8, 2008, 6:48pm Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
MarkPrince Said:
The KF-804 is a cupping / press / bag grinder and while ideally suited for those tasks, it's not so good for espresso, and I blame the pressed burrs for that (KF uses pressed burrs, which is changing this year - they are going to milled burrs (finally!!!!!)).
I don't see this as a pressed vs. milled burrs issue. Some grinders are designed for espresso, others for drip or press pot coffee. Espresso requires a certain percentage of fines for optimal flow characteristics (at least, that's the theory du jour), whereas these small particles clog filters in drip brewers, and increase bitterness and muddiness in press pots. That is probably part of the reason why the Ditting excels at drip and press pot grinds: it produces less fines than an espresso grinder.
pumpkinscastle Senior Member Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 143 Location: Cincinnati, OH Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Quickmilll Vetrano Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Posted Fri May 9, 2008, 8:25pm Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
Sorry but except for the fancy looks there is no reason why I would ever change to this grinder. For $400 you get a used Super Jolly on ebay which goes strong forever and which has no fancy electronics that could ever break. Also, I know how to remember the grind settings on my SJ. Maybe there is a little bit of small adjustments that you have to make after switching back from one grind level to another, but it's easy and fool-proof. So, why offer a grinder with so much buttons and displays? Simplicity reigns supreme!
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 4,655 Location: Vancouver Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Frankenstein'ed LM Linea Grinder: Anfim Super Caimano Vac Pot: 1922 Silex Drip: Krups Moka Brew Roaster: Hottop
Posted Fri May 9, 2008, 9:20pm Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
I'd say using a Mazzer (anthing, Mini, Super Joly, Cony whatever) means making compromises when having it as an all purpose grinder. It's designed for one type of grinding - anything else means using it outside of it's normal use (not to mention having to deal with getting the grinds from the grinder to the press, as an eg).
That's not saying the Mazzers can't do a press grind. They can. But finding your old spot for espresso isn't that easy (esp, if you use different coffees all the time, and each one requires their own "dial in" spot), and rotating the adjusting head that much takes time and effort. IMO, it's certainly not "fool proof" as you say. If it is for you, either you're way above my grade on knowing coffee, or you don't know your coffee enough.
Comparing the Mazzer to the Vario (or to any multipurpose grinder for that matter) is like comparing a tamper to a muller. Both sorta do the same thing, but one's meant for multiple purposes, the other is not.
Posted Sat May 10, 2008, 7:40am Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
I want one! Do you think there's any chance Baratza will offer a discounted unit for beta testers? I have a coffee club that I'm starting up on my college campus, and it would be great to have a good all-purpose grinder. Student government funding is a little low, so we can't quite afford the full price of $400ish. If it makes any difference, I have a Virtuoso right now that's in its second year (think it's ready for new burrs, though). While it's OK for espresso, it's been great for drip, vac, press, and cupping.
pumpkinscastle Senior Member Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 143 Location: Cincinnati, OH Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Quickmilll Vetrano Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Posted Sat May 10, 2008, 8:22am Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
MarkPrince Said:
I'd say using a Mazzer (anthing, Mini, Super Joly, Cony whatever) means making compromises when having it as an all purpose grinder. It's designed for one type of grinding - anything else means using it outside of it's normal use (not to mention having to deal with getting the grinds from the grinder to the press, as an eg).
That's not saying the Mazzers can't do a press grind. They can. But finding your old spot for espresso isn't that easy (esp, if you use different coffees all the time, and each one requires their own "dial in" spot), and rotating the adjusting head that much takes time and effort. IMO, it's certainly not "fool proof" as you say. If it is for you, either you're way above my grade on knowing coffee, or you don't know your coffee enough.
Comparing the Mazzer to the Vario (or to any multipurpose grinder for that matter) is like comparing a tamper to a muller. Both sorta do the same thing, but one's meant for multiple purposes, the other is not.
Mark, I am probably nowhere near your level of expertise, and to be honest I've only occasionally done a drip grind with my SJ for friends as I don't drink drip myself. However, changing back was really not so difficult for me (maybe it was just a fluke). Still, with my limited experience in drip, I'd say I get a much nicer grind for that purpose with any Mazzer espresso grinder than with most standard drip grinders. Having said this, the electronic pre-selection of grind levels on the new Baratza can be a true advantage for people doing multiple ways of preparing coffee. However, this grinder still has to prove that it can produce a high level of grind quality across the entire range of coarseness/fineness. And also, I am always suspicious when too much electronics comes into play. I'll eagerly await your (and others') comments on the grind quality.
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 4,655 Location: Vancouver Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Frankenstein'ed LM Linea Grinder: Anfim Super Caimano Vac Pot: 1922 Silex Drip: Krups Moka Brew Roaster: Hottop
Posted Sat May 10, 2008, 12:52pm Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
One of the questions I put to Kyle was "so, how's the durability". And Kyle, who is honest to a fault, said "We don't know yet." And then he told me that they are currently testing durability issues for everything - the cams, the buttons, the burr housing, the bins (their portaholder bin broke during shipment to the SCAA - and they're going to look at how to prevent that, as an eg).
The number of buttons is pretty big. This isn't an Apple Product (tm) (and I joked with Kyle and Kyra when I first saw the drawings for this panel almost a year ago, and again at the show about that very fact). The drawings showed a more complex panel IIRC, and I looked at the panel at the show and tried to figure out how to reduce the number and keep the accessibility, and without some kind of scroll wheel or touch screen, I don't know how to do it.
I'm not so concerned about the buttons OR the electronics - a microswitch is a microswitch, and they're pretty infallible if they work out of the gate. The microprocessor on board ditto. I'm mainly concerned with the durability of
- the cam drive grind selection arms (the cam drive itself I'm not concerned with - it's beefy) - the belt drive - the grinder burr set housing - the portaholder (metal meeting plastic plus a heavy PF can present problems)
All that said, this is a potentially game-changing grinder. I don't know of any multipurpose grinder that has had a digital timer with multiple settings - both count down (your dialed in settings) and count up. 2g a second is a remarkable speed for this kind of product, and IIRC, faster than a Mazzer Mini or Rocky. (2.4g / sec for press grind).
There's actually a lot of potential for restaurants in this device as a press grinder. The in-house "barista" could set up the grinder(s) with the particular coffee they are using that day / week, and the servers just have to press the big fat grind button (with Press preset and lit up), to get the correct dosage. They'll get a 3 cup press in 9 seconds, or a 4 cup press in 12 seconds, with auto shut off, and an easy-grab bin to grab hold of and pour into the press. Nothing else on the market can deliver that right now.
Also, it's big - bigger than the Virtuoso - wider mainly. I should have taken side by sid pics.
Re adjusting the SJ - I realised after my post, I was extremely snarky, and I apologise for that. For me, I've gotten pretty precise in where I want my coffee grind to be for shots of espresso, and sometimes I spend four, five shot pulls dialing in a coffee on the SJ in the morning when I used to use it (now I adjust the timer dial on the Anfim to do the same thing). Because it's so tight an adjustment for me, I know from previous experience that going to a press (which is what, almost 2 full revolutions on the SJ?) back to the espresso setting gives my OCD nightmares ;)
Posted Sat May 10, 2008, 2:46pm Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
Mark were you able to see the grind quality...consistency (no dust grinds) and are they static issues...obviously from what you saw. Also How big is the unit compared to the Mini or M4. And one last note...build quality? What is your take. Sorry to ask so many questions but August seems like forever!!! Haha Thanks
mhoy Senior Member Joined: 4 Feb 2008 Posts: 128 Location: Sunnyvale, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 Grinder: KA Proline Roaster: HotTop KN-8828D
Posted Tue Jun 24, 2008, 11:37am Subject: Re: Fresh Meat! The new Baratza Vario...
Why didn't I see this thread a while ago....
A quiet grinder that grinds for espresso is what I've been after!!! This will make many peoples mornings have a kinder start. The rest of the machine is all bonus as far as I'm concerned. Ceramic Burrs, Portafilter holder, timer, easy to clean, adjustable and repeatable.
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