DaveSussman Senior Member Joined: 7 Jul 2008 Posts: 4 Location: Vancouver Canada Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Aug 24, 2008, 7:07pm Subject: dull burrs causing bitterness?
Hi all,
I am using a saeco armonia espresso maker, and a nuova simonelli mcf grinder. I have tried (I think) everything, but my espresso is virtually always bitter. Maybe once or twice it has come out right, but usually it has a very bitter after taste. I play with the grind settings and tamping, and I am pretty close to being right on in terms of time-to-run-through (25-30 seconds give or take), but still no luck.
I am thinking I might need to change the burrs on the grinder... Could that be the problem?
While I bought the espresso maker new, I bought the grinder second-hand and the seller assured me the burrs were quite sharp and did not need replacement. I have opened the unit and they seem to have a bit of an edge (comparable to one side of my little kids' scissors, I guess) but they are not 'sharp' by any means. How sharp are they when they are new? As sharp as a butter knife? As sharp as a good pair of shears? As sharp as a steak knife?
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I want to seek some advice before I sink another $80 into this adventure...
Dull burrs? Perhaps. But there's a bunch of other, probably more likely, reasons that you are seeing bitterness.
Symptoms of dull burrs include erratic (inconsistent) shots, increased blonding & excessive heat (warmer grounds). It's very hard to tell visually if burrs are sharp unless there is severe wear or gross damage. But a burr should be sharp enough to shave a layer off your fingernail. Try pulling a burr edge across a fingernail (be careful!) and it should be able to shave a sliver off your fingernail the same way that a sharp pocket knife would. It would narrow the problem down if you could borrow someone else's grinder for comparison or take your grinder to a friends place & use it to pull a shot on his machine.
What can cause bitter espresso? Overly high temperatures (flush more), over-extraction (grind coarser) or blonding (continuing to pour the espresso after it's colour lightens significantly). A short term workaround until you find the cause is to only let the middle third (sweetest portion) of the shot go into your cup. Sometimes people confuse bitter & sour. Bitter is sharp & alkaline (dark chocolate, baking soda). Sour is sharp & acid (citrus, vinegar). Sour probably means that a grind needs to be finer, your shot is channeling (better distribution & tamp) or possibly that your machine is running too cool. You are using fresh beans, right?
Dull burrs? Perhaps. But there's a bunch of other, probably more likely, reasons that you are seeing bitterness.
Symptoms of dull burrs include erratic (inconsistent) shots, increased blonding & excessive heat (warmer grounds). It's very hard to tell visually if burrs are sharp unless there is severe wear or gross damage. But a burr should be sharp enough to shave a layer off your fingernail. Try pulling a burr edge across a fingernail (be careful!) and it should be able to shave a sliver off your fingernail the same way that a sharp pocket knife would. It would narrow the problem down if you could borrow someone else's grinder for comparison or take your grinder to a friends place & use it to pull a shot on his machine.
What can cause bitter espresso? Overly high temperatures (flush more), over-extraction (grind coarser) or blonding (continuing to pour the espresso after it's colour lightens significantly). A short term workaround until you find the cause is to only let the middle third (sweetest portion) of the shot go into your cup. Sometimes people confuse bitter & sour. Bitter is sharp & alkaline (dark chocolate, baking soda). Sour is sharp & acid (citrus, vinegar). Sour probably means that a grind needs to be finer, your shot is channeling (better distribution & tamp) or possibly that your machine is running too cool. You are using fresh beans, right? ---------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- These are all EXCELLENT comments "J"... Funny how it takes many of us a while to differentiate between bitter and sour shots. I've been getting "layered" pucks from my Cremina lately, most often when using my PeDe hand grinder. Back OT, if the OP follows you suggestions, hopefully all will become clear. Truth is, for any other than maybe a Mazzer/Macap/Cimbali, burrs like those from the OP's grinder are relatively cheap, and probably should be replaced every 100-200lbs. The Saeco much soooner, actually. It's pretty much similar to a Baratza Solis, etc in that manner.
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