Posted Fri Feb 6, 2009, 7:20pm Subject: Baratza Vario infocast
Ok, so I listened to the podcast about this grinder and I was wondering something... For the $430, aren't there other grinders out there that will work just as well?
This grinder seems like it does a lot for the money but I mostly brew espresso drinks and the base model Masetro that I have will work fine if I ever need to grind for automatic drip or french press.
Isn't there a grinder on the market that can grind a sweet espresso grind for under $200? When you get into the $400+ range, I would think the options you have available at this level would make it pretty competitive and this grinder will just blend into the mix.
If this grinder was 1/2 the price, I might be more interested in it as an all-in-one replacement grinder for me.
I don't know if I am having trouble sleeping at night because I'm thinking about the perfect shot or because of all the ones I've consumed.
philosogeek Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 443 Location: Northborough, MA Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Livia 90 Semi-Auto Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Maestro Vac Pot: Yama 8 and 3 cup Drip: Pour over, Clever coffee... Roaster: Behmor
Posted Fri Feb 6, 2009, 7:34pm Subject: Re: Baratza Vario infocast
No sweet espresso grinders (at least when new) out there to be had for $200. We'll wait and see how people like it, but it does have a pretty compelling set of features.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 5,427 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri Feb 6, 2009, 7:40pm Subject: Re: Baratza Vario infocast
SkydiveGuy Said:
Ok, so I listened to the podcast about this grinder and I was wondering something... For the $430, aren't there other grinders out there that will work just as well?
At the moment, I would have to say "no," but by and large that's because the Baratza Vario is still "untried-and-untested" in the "real world" arena. (See below.)
SkydiveGuy Said:
This grinder seems like it does a lot for the money but I mostly brew espresso drinks and the base model Masetro that I have will work fine if I ever need to grind for automatic drip or french press.
This presumes that the Baratza Maestro does a great job for espresso, which I do not believe it does. On the contrary, many people (myself included) feel this model is better suited for automatic drip and/or French Press than it is for espresso.
SkydiveGuy Said:
Isn't there a grinder on the market that can grind a sweet espresso grind for under $200?
Under $200 is pushing it. The best deal I know of in a new grinder is the Cunill Tranquilo at $235/$245 (doserless/doser). Another option in the same price range is the Le'Lit PL53 for $239 (but I'd opt for the Cunill, personally). Otherwise, you're looking at grinders like the Compak K3 Touch, the Compak K3 Elite, or the Mazzer Mini -- but at that point, I think you're better off looking for a used Mazzer Super Jolly off eBay and investing in a new set of burrs.
SkydiveGuy Said:
When you get into the $400+ range, I would think the options you have available at this level would make it pretty competitive and this grinder will just blend into the mix.
The advantage the Baratza Vario seems to have is that it will REMEMBER the settings -- from espresso to French, and thereby allowing an "ease of adjustment" that isn't all that easy on other $400+ grinders.
I have found that most grinders designed for espresso are just that: designed for espresso. They don't necessarily do as great a job grinding for French Press, automatic drip, etc.; instead, they excel at grinding for espresso. Personally, I wouldn't attempt to use my Mahlkönig Vario or La Cimbali Max Hybrid grinders to make French Press . . .
That said, my hopes for the Baratza Vario is that it can grind for both, and I can replace my "second" (Quick Mill Doserless) grinder I use for decaf espresso and my other grinder I use with French press with one, single grinder -- the Baratza Vario.
That is my point. Maybe one of these many companies should take some time and look into a dedicated espresso grinder without any bells and whistles designed for the home market for around $200 or so.
Don't get me wrong, I have the bottom of the line Baratza Maestro and like it, but everyone out there with much more experience in espresso brewing always posts that this grinder is not suitable for espresso.
I just don't see how much better of a grind you get for $330 more.
Is there anyone that can justify this price difference?
I don't know if I am having trouble sleeping at night because I'm thinking about the perfect shot or because of all the ones I've consumed.
I thought this was asking if there were any already on the market and not asking why don't they make one...but okay...
SkydiveGuy Said:
That is my point. Maybe one of these many companies should take some time and look into a dedicated espresso grinder without any bells and whistles designed for the home market for around $200 or so.
Have you tried another grinder? I also had a Maestro (still do for drip) when I was starting out and there is a huge difference between its grind and my Super Jolly, especially for espresso. I think anyone who has used both can justify the $300 price difference...especially if they spend $1500 or so on a machine.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 5,427 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri Feb 6, 2009, 7:57pm Subject: Re: Baratza Vario infocast
SkydiveGuy Said:
Don't get me wrong, I have the bottom of the line Baratza Maestro and like it, but everyone out there with much more experience in espresso brewing always posts that this grinder is not suitable for espresso. I just don't see how much better of a grind you get for $330 more. Is there anyone that can justify this price difference?
No. No one can, because no one has really used this grinder yet in its final production version.
That said, look at the differences between the Maestro and the Vario, and the reason for the cost differential is clear:
40mm conical burr set vs. 54mm ceramic flat burrs (much closer in size and characteristics to the 58mm burr set found n the Mazzer Mini or Macap M4, etc., but ceramics stay sharper longer); and
simple on/off switch versus a digital times and programmable buttons (to remember what your settings are).
The list goes on and on.
Whether the difference in price is worth it TO YOU is a different matter. I suspect it is not. For me? I have no idea . . . yet. And I won't for some time -- not until the production model has shipped, and enough people whom I trust have used it and like it enough for me to feel confident to go out and buy one for myself.
Posted Fri Feb 6, 2009, 8:07pm Subject: Re: Baratza Vario infocast
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
No. No one can, because no one has really used this grinder yet in its final production version.
That said, look at the differences between the Maestro and the Vario, and the reason for the cost differential is clear: 40mm conical burr set vs. 54mm ceramic flat burrs (much closer in size and characteristics to the 58mm burr set found n the Mazzer Mini or Macap M4, etc., but ceramics stay sharper longer); and simple on/off switch versus a digital times and programmable buttons (to remember what your settings are). The list goes on and on.
Whether the difference in price is worth it TO YOU is a different matter. I suspect it is not. For me? I have no idea . . . yet. And I won't for some time -- not until the production model has shipped, and enough people whom I trust have used it and like it enough for me to feel confident to go out and buy one for myself.
I think the problem I have is that I only use the machine 5-6 times a week (I am the only coffee drinker in the house). So until my sig. other finally gives in and joins in with my obsession, looks like I will just never see the value.
Then again, I will wait and see like eveyone else, how this new grinder performs. Hell, if it works as good as it sounds, it might be a bargain in the long run.
I don't know if I am having trouble sleeping at night because I'm thinking about the perfect shot or because of all the ones I've consumed.
Posted Sat Feb 7, 2009, 8:31am Subject: Re: Baratza Vario infocast
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
The advantage the Baratza Vario seems to have is that it will REMEMBER the settings -- from espresso to French, and thereby allowing an "ease of adjustment" that isn't all that easy on other $400+ grinders.
Unless someone unplugs the Vario or the power goes out briefly which happens in my area regularly. Having to regularly reprogram the Vario could get old fast. If it can do a good espresso grind & a good press pot grind it will be the first. If it can't then the "ease of adjustment" doesn't mean much.
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