Brains530 Senior Member Joined: 1 Feb 2009 Posts: 24 Location: Davis, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Thu Feb 26, 2009, 12:02am Subject: hand grinder
so after reading through my own and other peoples deliberations on grinders i think all i would need is a hand grinder. i dont know how they work though. are they good enough for espresso? what about press? I've heard the name Zessenhaus a lot are any of those good or are there some that i should stray from?
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Thu Feb 26, 2009, 2:49am Subject: Re: hand grinder
Hand Grinder are GREAT!!!
Ok, Ill calm down, I just love mine soo much!!
Firstly, I would suggest against buying a NEW zassenhaus. Many have found they rock, while others are dissapointed. It seems to be a 50-50 chance whether or not yours wil be capable of espresso.
Heres what you do. Go to orphan espresso and go to thier ESPRESSO hand grinder section. They usually have 2 or more up for sale. They restore old hand grinders, and while not all of them will grind for espresso, the ones that do, excell at it. You wont have to worry, because the ones that dont cut it, get put in the COFFEE hand grinder section. Orphanespresso GARUNTEES thier espresso hand grinders to be more then enough for espresso machines. They test them on thier lever machines, which can be even more finicky with grind size and quality then pump machines. Most of thier grinders will choke their levers, and then some.
They have grinders of all types. Knee grinders, Lap grinders, counter grinders, wall grinders. If its in the espresso section, your good to go. I personally bought one from them about a month ago, and i was so surprised with the grind quality. It will rival the Macap my local shop has. Ive pulled shots on the La Spaziale 2 group using my grinder, and it will choke that machine.
Brand wise, if orphan has it, it doesnt matter. Some popular names are Peter Dienes(PeDe), Zassenahus, Armin Trosser, KYM, and DeVe. If its a Zass from orphan, its good. I personally went with a PeDe, and I love it. they do a fantastic job restoring them. Mine looks brand spankin new. It will grind past turkish powder before burr lock, and that is WAY more then you need for espresso.
Some of them will do turkish powder, some wont. The description will tell you. IMO, i would get on that will do turkish powder. Always better to have more grinding ability then you need. But, again, thats my opinion.
Go with the orphan, they will be sure to please!!
Kudos Jeff
Btw-good choice on the hand grinder. Its a great economical choice, and they do a fantastic job. You will eed a grinder at 400 to get grind quality like you will from hand grinders from orphan.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
Posted Thu Feb 26, 2009, 12:17pm Subject: Re: hand grinder
I completely second Jman. For me quality AND price were of equal importance, and I love mine. I got a PeDe from orphan, and its truly excellent (especially when they are the same price as new zasses!). I've now gotten to use a Super Jolly on occasion, and I think in terms of sheer quality of grind, it is very comparable - that's not to say I wouldn't rather use one for the convenience, though. I think the 30 seconds I spend grinding is well worth the money I saved! Also, the hand grinders won't only be stepless, but they'll be stepless and extremely easy to go to drip and press if your into that too. You won't be able to find that in most entry level espresso grinders like a lelit. The only shortcomings I've noticed are convenience, and the ease with which you can translate good results in the grinds tray to good results in the portafilter. I'm still tweaking my technique to eliminate clumping entirely - the grinds are beatifully fluffy, but sometimes a bit of clumping happens when I distribute them out of the wooden drawer. Nothing a quick WDT cant fix, but I usually find that a piece of paper rolled into a funnel works just fine to dump the box right into.
If you don't see one at first that catches your eye, they seem to produce at least a few a week! Wait till one pops up with a nice fat espresso range : D
-Bill
P.S. Here are a few pictures that should give you a very rough idea of the grind quality they're capable of. These were taken in horrible light, so it probably doesn't do it total justice, but you'll get the idea!
Posted Thu Feb 26, 2009, 3:08pm Subject: Re: hand grinder
Another hand grinder devotee here. I'm hooked, and looking to get a second one in the near future. They're works of fine craftsmanship, not fairly unsightly, loud, and often hulking monuments of electronics, so some are driven not to just use them but collect them. I'm sensing I may be in that camp and at the least may not ever own an electronic grinder. But there are practical issues to consider before pulling the trigger on a manual grinder.
As JMan pointed out, they come in a variety of shapes and configurations. Beyond aesthetics, what this means is that your hand size and how a particular model is designed are important factors. This is a physical relationship with grinding beans, how a grinder's body and it's crank handle and knob fit your hands needs to be considered. Because....
You're not flipping a switch, you're hand grinding. It doesn't take less than 10 seconds and it's not effortless. Those of us who use manual grinders love this aspect and it fits our coffee habits and usage. Those who make lots of espresso shots consecutively or are impatient or couldn't be bothered with the "work" won't be thrilled with owning one and it will wind up on eBay or the kitchen shelf as display.
Upsides:
14 grams in, 14 grams out. At most a simple rap on the side of the grinder once finished means no residual grounds of any consequence left behind.
Want to clean the burrs? Run some Minute Rice through it. Done.
No electricity.
No loud motor, so late night or early morning grinding is a GO without disturbing others.
Burrs last for eons as long as you don't grind any stones.
Posted Fri Feb 27, 2009, 2:12pm Subject: Re: hand grinder
Another fan here - though I do also own a couple serious electiric mills... And I still use them. When I need to crank out shot after shot, there's no way I'd use a hand mill. Beyond that, I've added details that I think may help in the current CG discussion going on here.
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 2,108 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto II Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sat Feb 28, 2009, 2:39am Subject: Re: hand grinder
Kiont!!!
It was you!!!! Ha ha,, I was gonna buy that grinder, and, as so many grinders before it, it was gone when I went to make the purchase.
I looked at it for like, idk, 5 days deciding whether or not I needed yet another hand grinder. When I decided to buy it.... GONE!!
Ha, enjoy it! that is one beautful piece of work.
BTW, contrary to most, I drink espresso as if I owned an electric grinder. I go through 2 lbs a weeks, just on espresso. Add roughly another pound for press pot. I use hand grinders all the way. So, it can be done. Some grinders, usually KYM, have a more aggresive feed, meaning more muscle. Some no namers and the occasional PeDe will have a real smooth feed, meaning less muscle, but longer grind time. And even the most aggresive feed, is nothing even harder then opening a stubborn jar, and even that is more effort then you will ever exert. How do i know? Try grinding beans not even into first crack on turkish, not that requires a little muscle!!!. I of course, have never done this :)
So, dont even for one second think you made the wrong decision. Lets see. Mazzer mini new, just under 700. Hand grinder from orphan, at MOST, 85.00. *Grind quality....same(in general), espresso that you have partly crafted yourself? Priceless.(*HB thread, hand jive)
Oh, and I roast my coffee with the heatgun method. Im very in tune with whats going on with my beans, from green to ristretto, I do as much as I can hands on. Idk, I could own a roaster and a Mazzer, but my way, well, OUR way, has got a certain swagger to it, that has to be experienced to be appreciated.
Enjoy my friend, you are now one of us!!! BWWaaahahahahahahahahaha!!!
Heh, Kudos, Jeff
P.S.- Ed, what model Zass do you have? Ive seen a few Zasses Ive liked on orphan, and Im itching for another grinder. Can yours do down to turkish or does it stop at a fine espresso? I saw one with a wooden dome I liked, but of course, i missed it.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
Posted Sat Feb 28, 2009, 3:59pm Subject: Re: hand grinder
Jmanespresso Said:
P.S.- Ed, what model Zass do you have? Ive seen a few Zasses Ive liked on orphan, and Im itching for another grinder. Can yours do down to turkish or does it stop at a fine espresso? I saw one with a wooden dome I liked, but of course, i missed it.
I have a 156 knee mill that as far as I can tell is from the early '50's--it's one of those with the knurled adjustment screw just to the side of the axle. I didn't get it from Orphan. I got it for a steal on eBay--$30 including shipping thanks to the patron saint of guys whose espresso equipment really needs upgrading--and it is in great shape given its age and that it was really used, not displayed. Didn't require much clean-up at all to look great. (auction picture is below) It just makes it into espresso range, and takes about 85 turns for 14 grams. When I score my next manual from Orphan I'll use this one just for the press pot, but it's doing a great job now. Really consistent grinds, zero clumping.
(Click for larger image)
E d C u s t a r d pseudo-barista
"...the extreme of banality allows us to catch a glimpse of the sublime." Umberto Eco
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