tpowells Senior Member Joined: 13 May 2008 Posts: 44 Location: Northern California Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Tue Mar 24, 2009, 12:36pm Subject: Re: Swapping Mazzers for Varios
Well, I have a Macap M4 (more like a Mazzer Mini than an SJ), and just got a Vario last week. I use both for espresso only. I am very impressed by the grind quality, by the convenience of the timer (although I have my M4 on a darkroom timer anyway), and most of all, by the low amount of retained grounds. I am less impressed with the quality of the portafilter holder - it really doesn't work well with a bottomless portafilter. Overall, with 10% off at Chris Coffee I think it was a real bargain.
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 5,415 Location: Vancouver, BC Expertise: Professional
Espresso: KvdW Speedster Grinder: Compak K10 WBC Vac Pot: A bit too many Drip: Clive Coffee Drip Stand Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Tue Mar 24, 2009, 1:11pm Subject: Re: Swapping Mazzers for Varios
I'm very hesitant to write the following, but here goes.
Some minor evolutionary changes are coming to the grinder, and they should be available on N. American shelves in a very short while. I have one of them here, it literally arrived in the post today, about 3 weeks before general availability.
Changes include
- easier adjustability of the "set" burr height (easier than removing that rubber grommet and finding the adjustment hex) - improvements to the anti-static system (though it may be the same as the current models - it's an improvement over my late prototype - minor tweaks to the portaholder - better indents for the grind selection arms you move up and down - ball bearing indent for the bin and pf holder for a more secure fit. - tighter control over factory preset for the grinder
If you're on the fence about this grinder, wait for this model. Confirm with the vendor that it has the new ball bearing indent for secure bin placement and this is the model. It appears this was implemented on the first shipping models (my late prototype doesn't have it). Instead, ask if there's a ready access adjustment hole just behind the grinder's exit chute.
If you want this grinder already, don't wait for this new model - all the improvements above aren't enough to negate purchasing today; the potentially best one, easier adjustment of the burr height, is still easy to do with exisitng models via the rubber grommet method
If you already own this grinder, understand that Baratza is committed to continual improvements on this grinder and it will see .1 and .11 improvements from time to time for months, if not years. If i had to assign this latest model a version number, it would probably be version 1.05. It was a great grinder at launch, and will continue to improve.
greatphotos Senior Member Joined: 5 Mar 2009 Posts: 8 Location: Colorado Springs Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Mar 24, 2009, 3:15pm Subject: Re: Swapping Mazzers for Varios
My VARio which was one of the first has a very secure holding of the grinds bin so maybe I have the ball bearing indent. It snaps into place with a click.
I could sure use better indents for the grind selection arms as they are too easy to move currently but do allow me to set a position in the middle of the notches.
The anti-static improvement would be one that I am unsure if mine would improve. Sometimes I have slight static and sometimes not. I quit using the PF holder and now grind straight into the bin and then tap it into the portafilter. It doesn't just fall out but needs tapped to get the grounds out. I don't experience grinds flying around like I did on my older grinder though.
A $400 plastic grinder with 54mm ceramic burrs matches a $1500 WBC conical grinder with 68mm burrs? We've been wasting a lot metal if it's true.
Makes me wonder if there is some grinder "payola" going on with these reviewers. ;-)
I tend to believe the review by Mark Prince where he rates it slightly abovethe Rocky in the Consumer Models but in a different league compared to the big Commercials grinders. This comment at H-B is just ridiculous.
I think there are some coming in to my local shop. I guess I'll need to give it a try myself to see if all the hype is justified.
I assume your question is a rhetorical one. Why would you want to sell your Super Jolly? It is reassuring to hear that the Baratza Vario is doing a great job at grinding for espresso. However, the Vario was not meant to compete with the Super Jolly. The Super Jolly is seriously an excellent grinder, and I am not sure what you would gain with exchanging it for a Vario. The only thing I could think of is that the Vario uses up less space.
I have to admit, though, that I am one of these people who have read a lot about the Vario but who haven't tried it. I'd love to get some hands-on experience with the Vario, but I don't want to buy it in order to do so. I wonder if there is someone in the Cincinnati area who has one and would like to get together for a sampling session....
Jmanespresso Senior Member Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 1,935 Location: Westchester NY Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: La Spaziale Vivaldi II Grinder: Mazzer Major - Vario Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5 Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Tue Mar 24, 2009, 7:14pm Subject: Re: Swapping Mazzers for Varios
Regardless of whether or not itll compete with a "Titan" line grinder, I do think it is a good grinder, espescially for those looking for a multiple use grinder. Ive not used one myself. I was very surprised at that thread, but in comparing taste/flavor of a shot ONLY, I suppose its possible it can produce equally great shots. Durability, life of ownership are a different story, one only time will tell. all that said, I do like the Vario, from what Ive read and looked at.
Im likely going to buy this grinder for my Fathers Bday, as he drinks French press, and often likes a different bean then I, for espresso's. He really likes brazils, sumatras, blends, whereas I like the FUNK, read:Yemen. Having his own grinder that he can both brew FP with, and pull shots on Anita, with his own choice of bean, will be great. Plus, the Vario is smaller then Mr. Major, so it will travel well to our vacation home, and still handle espresso with style. It will also be fun to try out stuff i dont have a big supply of, without burning through as much as the Major does trying to dial it in.
Had I not just bought a Major, Id likely consider a Vario. Tho I think I would pick the major time and time again..cuz..well.. its a major.
Follow Your Bliss
Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 5,060 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Wed Mar 25, 2009, 7:21am Subject: Re: Swapping Mazzers for Varios
Endo Said:
A $400 plastic grinder with 54mm ceramic burrs matches a $1500 WBC conical grinder with 68mm burrs? We've been wasting a lot metal if it's true. Makes me wonder if there is some grinder "payola" going on with these reviewers.
Oh bull$#!+ . . . that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on the pages of CG.
Read the methodology of the "test," and read the results. And read the conclusion:
So we promoted the Vario to the Titan league, and did six shots against the Compak. Here we had two slight slight wins by the Compak, two by the Vario and two ties. We never could tell which grinder was which. On this day, the Vario played in the Titan league and won.
It's a "win" solely based upon price, not upon performance. Obviously its a "tie" based upon performance. But more importantly are the words "On this day . . . " This was a one-day test, not a long-term study. No one is suggesting (or has suggested) that cafés the world over are going to dump their Compak K10s, Mazzer Roburs, Anfim Caminos and the like for a Baratza Vario. No one is suggesting any home user do that either -- there are a lot of home users that consider the Mazzer Mini the top machine. It's not in my opinion, but many are extraordinarily happy with their Mini would would never consider switching to another grinder. And still others are looking to a
You want to think such things, think them to yourself. But don't slander highly-respected people in the coffee community because you don't agree with the results of one single experiment. this is not rocket science. This is pure subjectivity, period.
Endo Said:
I think there are some coming in to my local shop. I guess I'll need to give it a try myself to see if all the hype is justified.
greatphotos Senior Member Joined: 5 Mar 2009 Posts: 8 Location: Colorado Springs Expertise: Just starting
Posted Wed Mar 25, 2009, 9:40am Subject: Re: Swapping Mazzers for Varios
I have been able to talk to the designer of the Vario and there are some misconceptions that keep coming up in discussing it.
It's not plastic. It's metal with plastic cosmetic covers. Makes for an easy clean up and don't have to worry about scratching chrome.
It was designed to compete with the big grinders on taste and was tested using high end espresso machines like GS3 and high end grinders. It may not last as long as a high end grinder (except for the burrs). It also won't grind as fast but 10 seconds isn't long to wait.
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