winefood Senior Member Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Posts: 10 Location: Santa Rosa Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Coffee Gaggia Grinder: Looking for a new one Vac Pot: SS. Bodum French Press
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 12:35am Subject: Vertuoso Preciso vs. Rocky
Hardly a new topic, but i am not decided. I just bought a Coffee Gaggia and need a grinder that can make espresso as well as press pot. Although the sales people at WLL and other places recommend Vertuoso Preciso, I am thinking that by the looks of the Rocky, its' going to outlast the Vertuoso Preciso2 to 1.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,613 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 2:24am Subject: Re: Vertuoso Preciso vs. Rocky
The Preciso has many more steps than the Rocky. With the Rocky it can happen to you that you end up stuck in between two steps for proper extraction of espresso, because its steps are too wide. That can be pretty frustrating. You won't make that experience with the Preciso.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
winefood Senior Member Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Posts: 10 Location: Santa Rosa Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Coffee Gaggia Grinder: Looking for a new one Vac Pot: SS. Bodum French Press
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 12:34pm Subject: Re: Vertuoso Preciso vs. Rocky
OK! It seems the consensus is unified, although my frugal and practical side is concerned about the complaints and quality control issues I have read about on this site. Now I need to figure out who to buy it from.
It is all about the grind. Yesterday I bought some coffee that was ground at different settings and I saw how if you don't have the right grind, or if you don't put the right amount of pressure on the tamper, you don't get crema or the water will barely trickle through the portafilter. The 2 streams are weak and sometimes it misses the cups.
How long should it take to pull a shot and what should the volume be? The machine came with some 2 oz. metal cups.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,727 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012, 12:55pm Subject: Re: Vertuoso Preciso vs. Rocky
freshness of the ground coffee (considered by most to be withing 15 minutes), fineness of the grind, and volume/weight of the coffee used for the shot are all much more important than tamp pressure (which should never change).
yeah, 30# is the standard, and as pointed out in a different thread recently (calblacksmith, I believe), even when overdone won't come close to the pressure applied by the water at the group (he actually knows that number, and I think he quoted something over 100psi). That being said, you can practice proper tamp pressure with a bathroom scale...or puchase a really expensive tamper with a mechanism to tell you when you're reached 30#.
Your shot should typically run about 25 seconds +/- 3, but there are other signs to know when it's actually done (most important being taste). Of course, I'm an amateur "barista", but this is the general ballpark.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,685 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Fri Jan 20, 2012, 7:59am Subject: Re: Vertuoso Preciso vs. Rocky
emradguy Said:
freshness of the ground coffee (considered by most to be withing 15 minutes), fineness of the grind, and volume/weight of the coffee used for the shot are all much more important than tamp pressure (which should never change).
yeah, 30# is the standard, and as pointed out in a different thread recently (calblacksmith, I believe), even when overdone won't come close to the pressure applied by the water at the group (he actually knows that number, and I think he quoted something over 100psi). That being said, you can practice proper tamp pressure with a bathroom scale...or puchase a really expensive tamper with a mechanism to tell you when you're reached 30#.
Your shot should typically run about 25 seconds +/- 3, but there are other signs to know when it's actually done (most important being taste). Of course, I'm an amateur "barista", but this is the general ballpark.
LOL, you WERE paying attention! Yes, tamping is the least important part of the process, be consistent and you are fine. The number is 130 PSI for brewing. (10 bar, a bar is equal to one atmosphere of pressure (what the air above you weighs when at sea level) and that is 14.5 psi, so 10 bar is 145 psi, OK, we shoot for 9 bar but 9 to 10 (130 to 145 psi) will give you good results) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_%28unit%29
Good info for the rest of the post though, good job!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Clingstone Senior Member Joined: 18 Nov 2002 Posts: 164 Location: Boston, MA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Isomac Tea and... Grinder: Vario and Rocky D.Less Vac Pot: Cona D Roaster: Behmor
Posted Fri Jan 20, 2012, 9:18am Subject: Re: Vertuoso Preciso vs. Rocky
I'm in a related quandary in that I've owned a Rocky for almost 10 years and thinking of an upgrade to Preciso. Is it worth it? I'm using Rocky exclusively for espresso with my Isomac Tea. Several years ago I did the mod I read about on these forums where jammed some paperclips in the gap between the top and bottom of the grinder so that there is friction between the steps which has made it more of a stepless grinder. Overall I'm happy with Rocky, but really don't have anything to compare it with. With all this in mind, I would welcome any feedback on whether folks think the Precisio would be a significant upgrade that I would notice. I'm also a home roaster with a Behmor. BTW I am not interested in buying anything more expensive than the Preciso. Check that, my wife is not interested in me buying anything more expensive than the Preciso. Check that, as I type this I can feel my wife rolling her eyes at the thought of me buying another coffee anything. But I do love her so!
"AND THE BOSTON RED SOX HAVE WON THE WORLD SERIES! CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!!??"
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,727 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Fri Jan 20, 2012, 10:13am Subject: Re: Vertuoso Preciso vs. Rocky
calblacksmith Said:
LOL, you WERE paying attention! Yes, tamping is the least important part of the process, be consistent and you are fine. The number is 130 PSI for brewing. (10 bar, a bar is equal to one atmosphere of pressure (what the air above you weighs when at sea level) and that is 14.5 psi, so 10 bar is 145 psi, OK, we shoot for 9 bar but 9 to 10 (130 to 145 psi) will give you good results) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_%28unit%29
Good info for the rest of the post though, good job!
Thanks for the compliment! Yeah, college physics was a very long time ago, but belive it or not, I once was very good at it - top ot my class in fact. Pulmonary meducine was also a very long time ago, though I wasn't very interested in it, so it didn't serve as much of a refresher on pressure science.
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