CoffeeGeek - Espresso: Grinders - Espresso, Grinder hunt for low volume user concerned about stale grounds/cleaning

Espresso: Grinders - Espresso
Grinder hunt for low volume user concerned about stale grounds/cleaning

Espresso Makers

Premium stovetop espresso makers, electric moka pots, machines & accessories.
www.espressozone.com

Not Logged in:

updated topics	new posts	new unanswered
search	faq	sign up

Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > Grinder hunt for...

view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics

showing page 1 of 2

last page

Author

Messages

Nelson
Senior Member

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 12
Location: NY
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Ibrik
Grinder: Melitta Burr
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup, Cory Rod
Drip: Clever Coffee Dripper
Roaster: Behmor

Posted Sat Mar 24, 2012, 11:19am Subject: Grinder hunt for low volume user concerned about stale grounds/cleaning

Hello forum, How do people handle the stale grounds issue in low-volume use, and what grinders make it easier to keep clean and fresh? I'm a long-time coffee geek, about 3-6 months out from investing in full espresso rig. While a fan of all espresso drinks, as a frequent lo-carb dieter, I tend towards drinking straight espresso most of the time. My anticipated consumption is anywhere from 2-4 shots a day, and am fairly settled on (and highly anticipating) getting an Elektra MCAL, knowing about its quirks and temperature performance, etc. Having been a coffee brewer for ages, I have detected off-putting aromas if I have failed to clean my cheapy grinder's plastic parts for over a day. The stale grounds and oils start to give it an almost cigarette-ashy aroma, which unless that's your thing, is not what I'm looking for. (for those who think this may be a component of what beans/roast I'm using, I home roast for vac pot, mostly Ethiopian/East African coffees, and I roast to the dark edge of light, maybe City+ to full-city, to maximize varietal taste just shy of allowing the roast to overpower the bean; am aware espresso roasting is different). With my anticipated volume, I would ideally get a grinder that would provide the quality grind a lunatic espresso maker needs to get that god-shot, while minimizing my need to brush, clean, and vacuum the thing on a daily basis. While price is not a giant factor here, I think the Versalab (which seems to have this particular issue licked) seems a bit too pricey for me. Thoughts? Thanks in advance for opinions, Nelson

Mister_Bean
Senior Member

Joined: 16 Sep 2004
Posts: 18
Location: North Dartmouth, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Elektra Micro Casa...
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: Capresso CoffeeTEC
Roaster: Behmor 1600

Posted Sat Mar 24, 2012, 3:42pm
Subject: Re: Grinder hunt for low volume user concerned about stale grounds/cleaning

Nelson Said:

How do people handle the stale grounds issue in low-volume use,

Posted March 24, 2012 link

I have an Elektra MCSA that I use to make an overage of two short cappuccinos every morning. That's pretty well it for the day for me.

I have been grinding with an old dosered Super Jolly for years now, recently installing a doser mod that makes the lower star wheel sweep almost entirely clean for each weighed dose. My dosing ritual: I weigh the beans for each shot and grind into the portafilter (using my trusty OE dosing funnel). After brushing the grounds from the chute, I briefly pulse the grinder to clear the burrs, brush the stray grounds from the top of the front star wheel platform, then crank the doser again to clear the last bits into the portafilter. I estimate less than .2 grams are left in the doser after each grind. When I'm done grinding for the day, I quickly wipe out the doser.

Nelson Said:

...and what grinders make it easier to keep clean and fresh?

Posted March 24, 2012 link

The doser SJ is not designed for clean, accurate single dosing, and working around this limitation involves considerable extra time and effort that over the long haul becomes tedious. So I am currently awaiting the arrival of a Vario-W refurb I recently ordered from Baratza.

The Vario and the Vario-W seem to be two of the most cost effective solutions for home baristas who weigh and grind each shot and who need a grinder primarily for espresso. Users report that the grind quality equals or surpasses the SJ. With these Baratza machines, there is virtually no coffee left behind in the grind path at the end of the day, although it does accumulate over time under the burrs. Certainly not as squeaky clean as the Versalab, but with the huge price difference, you can afford to pay yourself to clean them out a bit more often if it will make you happier.

Posted Sun Mar 25, 2012, 9:51am Subject: Re: Grinder hunt for low volume user concerned about stale grounds/cleaning

Thanks for the advice. I will seriously look at the Vario-W. There are as many incredible grinders out there as there are espresso machines, but unfortunately many of them require a reasonable amount of time and effort in order to keep them clean and fresh in all the nooks, crannies, and inside that doser. While many accept and even enjoy this as the ritual of their hobby, I need to make an effort to minimize it or I would not be able to have this hobby. Then I'll remain subject to the skills of the teenaristas at the local triple-carmel-moccachino shop, skillfully hand-pulling my shots on the superautomatic. Any other ideas out there for people who consider clean-ability an important criteria in choosing an espresso grinder? Looking at Elektra MCALs, you quickly come across their very pretty grinder - I like the idea of the glass hopper, but it seems a standard design with a doser, and would perhaps have the same cleaning requirement of similar designs. Elektra has started making the Nino, which looks like a very impressive grinder, not much reviews about it, but is enormous I think it is way more machine than is reasonable for my situation. My existing grinder I use for my Yama vac pot, is a Mellita-branded burr grinder - yes, I know, it's the grinder that all of you WISH you had (I think here is where the youngins put in 'LOL') puts your SJs, Macaps, LaCimballi Jrs all to shame! Well maybe not, but most of you did go through my same phase- starting out with basic things and then upgrading as your life evolved. For this grinder, my routine is to clean it through about once a week by grinding rice, on the same setting as I would do for vac-pot coffee (finer than f-press, not as fine as espresso), and then I clean out the rice with brushing, and chase it with about 15 grams of fresh beans, and toss that. Do you guys clean your espresso grinders in a similar way? Must you use Grindz (which I have but haven't tried yet), or is Rice Ok? Any critical things to keep in mind? -Nelson

yakster
Senior Member

Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 1,006
Location: San Jose, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Factory / La Peppina...
Grinder: Vario / Kyocera
Vac Pot: Yama 8 + Pyrex Lox-in Rod
Drip: Brazen / Kalita / Chemex /...
Roaster: Behmor

Posted Sun Mar 25, 2012, 1:14pm Subject: Re: Grinder hunt for low volume user concerned about stale grounds/cleaning

Nelson Said: How do people handle the stale grounds issue in low-volume use, and what grinders make it easier to keep clean and fresh? Posted March 24, 2012 link I use a Vario at home and Japanese hand grinders at work. I don't notice much of an issue with the Vario and have come to feel that it's not an issue for me as long as I regularly use the grinder. Since I use the Vario for both pour-over and espresso, it gets good daily use. I'll sometimes clean out the chute to get rid of any accumulated coffee and have removed the upper burr in the past for a more thorough cleaning, but I've stopped using rice or grindz in my grinders. I'll clean the plastic and ceramic parts of the hand grinders weekly to remove the coffee grounds and stains on the burrs. Nelson Said: Having been a coffee brewer for ages, I have detected off-putting aromas if I have failed to clean my cheapy grinder's plastic parts for over a day. The stale grounds and oils start to give it an almost cigarette-ashy aroma, which unless that's your thing, is not what I'm looking for. Posted March 24, 2012 link I've smelled this on my hand grinders, but never picked it up on the Vario. It may just be that I'm not sticking my nose into the Vario. Nelson Said: With my anticipated volume, I would ideally get a grinder that would provide the quality grind a lunatic espresso maker needs to get that god-shot, while minimizing my need to brush, clean, and vacuum the thing on a daily basis. Posted March 24, 2012 link I think the Vario would fit your needs, but any need to brush, clean, and vacuum is going to be based on your own palate and preference so your mileage may vary.

-Chris LMWDP # 272

Posted Sun Mar 25, 2012, 9:35pm Subject: Re: Grinder hunt for low volume user concerned about stale grounds/cleaning

I believe Grindz serves a special role by cleaning the oils and finely powdered oil-bound particles off the burrs and other parts in the grind path in a way that brushing alone can't. So I use Grindz, but as an enhancement to, not a substitute for periodically disassembling and thoroughly brushing/vacuuming out the burr area. I have no experience with rice, but from what I've read here and elsewhere, it's only the quick-cooking (parboiled) type that should be used, if any--never the raw, uncooked grain which is apparently too hard and thus could damage the burrs. Personally, I'm not going there. In addition to the SJ, I have an old but perfectly functional Solis Maestro that I use strictly for brewed coffee. My wife and I don't drink much of that anymore, so it mainly gets hauled out when we have guests. The Maestro of course is doserless and does not retain grinds at drip fineness and coarser, in my experience. It only needs periodic Grindz and deep cleaning. --David

calblacksmith
Moderator

Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 5,684
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1
Grinder: Many different commercial
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis...
Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner

Posted Mon Mar 26, 2012, 6:33am Subject: Re: Grinder hunt for low volume user concerned about stale grounds/cleaning

Mister_Bean Said: The doser SJ is not designed for clean, accurate single dosing, and working around this limitation involves considerable extra time and effort that over the long haul becomes tedious. So I am currently awaiting the arrival of a Vario-W refurb I recently ordered from Baratza. Posted March 24, 2012 link The issue of modding a SJ doser to sweep clean is not a big deal at all and can be easily done in less than an hour. http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/general/572901 http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/grinders/573076 That said though, an espresso grinder is pretty much designed for espresso and my preference is for multi use grinders for all methods other than espresso. I have a few grinders for general purpose. I have a Solis 166 for travel and it does a very good job. They can be found under the label of Starbucks Barista also. They have plastic bodies but conical burrs and do a good job. I also have a MCD65 made by N.S. It is a bulk grinder and tends to take up a bit of space as it was designed for coffee shop use but it does an EXCELLENT job and can even be used for espresso in a pinch though it is a little touchy on the fine adjustment need in espresso. If you do very little grinding, I take it that you weigh and then grind for each dose of coffee, in this case, a small easy to handle grinder makes cleaning a bit easier as you can pick it up and shake it to knock out the stranded grounds. Larger grinders may require that you devise some sort of purge device to blow spent grounds from the grind chute. If the few grains that still remain, clinging to small surfaces, bothers you, I guess you will need a grinder that you can disassemble easily to wipe it out. There will always be SOME coffee clinging to the walls etc so I guess the issue becomes how sensitive are you to what remains?

In real life, my name is Wayne P. Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!

Posted Mon Mar 26, 2012, 11:49am
Subject: Re: Grinder hunt for low volume user concerned about stale grounds/cleaning

calblacksmith Said:

The issue of modding a SJ doser to sweep clean is not a big deal at all and can be easily done in less than an hour.

Posted March 26, 2012 link

As you know I think your SJ sweeper mod is the best, CB, and solves the worst problem, but for me, it's not just the issue of sweeping the doser floor clean. I still have to brush out the grind chute and brush off the pie-shaped platform over the doser hole, then thwack the doser yet again to get all the beans I weighed into the portafilter--for EVERY shot. And although I personally agree that your mod wasn't all that difficult, that perception really depends on each person's level of experience and mechanical expertise. Not all of us are DIYers, and installing your or anyone else's mod is not going to be for everyone. After dialing in with the Vario-W, we can just push two buttons, wait a few seconds, then empty the bin into the portafilter, shot after shot.

--David

Posted Mon Mar 26, 2012, 12:31pm Subject: Re: Grinder hunt for low volume user concerned about stale grounds/cleaning

All excellent points. Calblacksmith, you said something that goes to the heart of this - about how it all depends on how sensitive you are. From that perspective, this may be much ado about nothing, however it is very difficult to say when there are so many variables in the spectrum from sink-shot to god-shot. It reminds me of an old friend who was a hard-core audiophile and he ensured that his equipment was so high-end that it reproduced sound perfectly in all audible ranges, many of which can only be heard really well by dogs. My average ears couldn't hear frequencies in those ranges. One thing I can assure all - when you make primarily brewed coffee, even minor stale grounds and oils matter, because the taste of brewed coffee (especially vac pot/siphon) is nuanced and clean. Espresso, done right, is a flavor explosion that lingers for 20 minutes, so perhaps a tiny imperfection gets lost in there more easily. An SJ mod doesn't dissuade me, but I am leaning towards the Vario-W camp. We shall see what I do when the time comes for me to pull the trigger and actually buy. Anyone have any experience with the Elektra Nino? Again, I'm not looking for it, but it seems like it may be a good design that if scaled down in size to Mazzer Mini size, might become a real player in the pro-sumer market. N

calblacksmith
Moderator

Posted Mon Mar 26, 2012, 1:00pm Subject: Re: Grinder hunt for low volume user concerned about stale grounds/cleaning

DIY able or not, I do not think the SJ is a good grinder for multi use. It is designed to do one job and do it very well. I have nothing against other grinders and have many (tooooooo many) myself, all different makes. OH, about the HI FI guy, I am seriously into audio and the REAL test is to have a LIVE musician play and only IF he can't tell if it is live or his stereo, is it doing the reproducing correctly. Though I have some serious gear, others have much more than I do but NONE of them even start to be in the same state let alone city as a live performer. Just something to think about when we "geek" out. ;-P

In real life, my name is Wayne P. Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!

Posted Mon Mar 26, 2012, 3:52pm Subject: Re: Grinder hunt for low volume user concerned about stale grounds/cleaning

To Mister_Bean, when you clean with rice, you can use regular rice without any issue. It really isn't harder than coffee beans and should not dull the burrs any more than coffee would. You just can't grind it too finely as it could clog. Instead of par-boiled, which implies to me a form of al-dente rice awaiting a 2nd cooking, I think you may mean rice like Uncle Bens or Minute rice, which has been processed (perhaps par-boiled, then dried) and would certainly wear less on the burrs. I use regular Korean rice in the jumbo bag, without any issue. When I get a higher end grinder, I may opt to only use the 'grindz' for the occasional cleaning. We'll see. Sadly, I invented a product exactly like 'grindz' - a coffee-bean shaped substance that when you ground it up would clean your grinder.....only problem was that after I thought it up, I quickly discovered that someone else had the idea long before I did, and was selling it, i.e. grindz. Oh well. Lets see what else I can invent that already exists. Anyone making a double-boiler lever machine? N

showing page 1 of 2

last page

view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics

Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > Grinder hunt for...

updated topics

new posts

new unanswered

faq

Not Logged in: log in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post

Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.

Cafe Solutions

Commercial sales and service, nationwide installation, equipment leasing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com