greekespresso Senior Member Joined: 27 Jul 2011 Posts: 170 Location: Ptolemaida, Greece Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Silvia V3, Gaggia... Grinder: Mahlkönig Vario Home, Anfim...
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2012, 1:42pm Subject: Re: Need help choosing a grinder
You all focused in the freshness of the coffee ONLY and not to all other characteristics that coffee might have from the field up to the roasting which affect the result in the cup (i.e. coffees great for filter, bad for espresso).
I would have gone for the LM paired with a cheaper Ascaso I-mini I2 and would have had way better results than your Gaggia/Robur combo. No offence but your example is purely hypothetical and exaggerated.
The 4M’s the only thing that tell us is that espresso is a multivariable process and as such someone should aim to optimize all variables, but wrong choice of the starting material and nothing can be done from the machine or the grinder to compensate for the dissatisfactory end cup. Like a music that you do not like to listen. It will not make any better if you play it on a state of the-art HiFi or one just good.
You cannot make espresso without a grinder. Period. The importance ranking is just arbitrary. Other people might have different rankings: Click Here (www.home-barista.com)
Finally, my apologies to the OP for the drifting of the conversation. I was not expecting that my humble opinion would have created havoc.
onceinthemorning Senior Member Joined: 8 Apr 2012 Posts: 18 Location: Vancouver Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2012, 2:06pm Subject: Re: Need help choosing a grinder
Well I went out and bought a Preciso. I was excited until I unpacked it and found the rim of the bean holder was cracked! Oh what my disappointment! I drove all the way there and now I have to go back and exchange it. I must say too I found that bean holder kind of not high quality. For the money I was expecting a thicker plastic. I hope they do sell them separately as I can see that having to replace that sooner than later.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2012, 2:55pm Subject: Re: Need help choosing a grinder
greekespresso Said:
You all focused in the freshness of the coffee ONLY and not to all other characteristics that coffee might have from the field up to the roasting which affect the result in the cup (i.e. coffees great for filter, bad for espresso).
The 4M’s the only thing that tell us is that espresso is a multivariable process and as such someone should aim to optimize all variables, but wrong choice of the starting material and nothing can be done from the machine or the grinder to compensate for the dissatisfactory end cup.
Christos, context is everything. And, again, I would urge you to re-read what I wrote:
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
. . . when one is just starting out and entering the "world of espresso" for the first time -- the "newbie" tens to place the greatest emphasis, the greatest degree of importance, on the espresso machine itself.
The point, dear Christos, is -- once again -- ALL FOUR are important and, although the seemingly natural impulse is to place the greatest importance on the machine itself, this would be a mistake.
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
You cannot make espresso without a grinder. Period.
Dan Kehn holds a different opinion, and that's all any of this is. And were I speaking solely to a group of professional baristas and highly experienced home users, I might indeed agree with him. But that is Dan's world, not mine. My world consists of people with ALL levels of experience. And while the group of people here on CG does have a sizable overlap with the people on HB, the groups ARE different. This is coffee geek, and we have people of all levels of experience, including none at all!
So let me try this one final time: "All four are important. Nothing is more important than the grinder."
And if you still do not understand, or wish to continue this "debate" -- no offense, but I do not.
Finally -- from me . . .
JasonBrandtLewis Said:
And a friendly tip Jason before you buy the Robur . . .
There is no "debate" Jason. Just a bit of clever/funny English writing by you with no substance at all. You do not even read the links that you post. Hyperbole is a Greek word. ;-)
Anyway, I will agree with you. No point for carrying on this "debate".
Joel_B Senior Member Joined: 9 Oct 2007 Posts: 1,823 Location: Pacific NW Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Astra Mega II Grinder: Mazzer SJ, Virtuoso Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup Drip: nope, french press Roaster: Behmor, WP, BBQ drum
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2012, 4:41pm Subject: Re: Need help choosing a grinder
OK Jason, did you see what I just did there? I was able to post that awesome cartoon AND up my post count all at the same time :D. **pats self on back**
For the record I'm OK with thread derails lol! Its just better when its not silly "debating". Its better when its bacon related cuz everything is better wth bacon. Here's a little nugget.
greekespresso Senior Member Joined: 27 Jul 2011 Posts: 170 Location: Ptolemaida, Greece Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rancilio Silvia V3, Gaggia... Grinder: Mahlkönig Vario Home, Anfim...
Posted Thu Apr 12, 2012, 11:12pm Subject: Re: Need help choosing a grinder
Let's bring the conversation back on track.
onceinthemorning Said:
Well I went out and bought a Preciso. I was excited until I unpacked it and found the rim of the bean holder was cracked! Oh what my disappointment! I drove all the way there and now I have to go back and exchange it. I must say too I found that bean holder kind of not high quality. For the money I was expecting a thicker plastic. I hope they do sell them separately as I can see that having to replace that sooner than later.
If "collar" and "rim" are sililar, then we are back on track. Of course track and adjustment ring could also be simialr so we are really back to Preciso track. :)
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