Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 474 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Tue Aug 7, 2012, 11:14pm Subject: My first grinder: Frustrated and Confused with my Baratza
So after my arm got tired after a few weeks with my Hario Skerton, I picked up a Baratza Virtuoso. Originally, I was going get an Encore, but the person at the store told me their quality hadn't been consistent lately on the Encores and the Virtuoso would be a much better bet for espresso. I use an unpressurized PF with my Saeco RioVapore/Starbucks Barista. When I got it from the factory, it was not calibrated and did not grind nearly fine enough, and all the tamping in the world wouldn't get me a decent shot. I had to take it apart to re-calibrate it and set it on Fine, but now that I have, the hopper won't rotate past 30, as I believe the burrs physically touch at that point. Is that normal? It does grind very fine now, and I can easily choke my machine.
Also, was it a wise choice to go with the Virtuoso over the Encore? It was $100 more and I'm still stinging from that unexpected upgrade, but I really want a decent starter grinder. Thanks for the advice!
Posted Tue Aug 7, 2012, 11:25pm Subject: Re: My first grinder: Frustrated and Confused with my Baratza
Well, all things being relative, if you're choking your machine, what's the problem? Back it off a bit, and see what that gets you. Also, adjusting the dose up or down can compensate for the difference in steps. Say 1 step coarser causes a too fast pour. DON'T change your tamp pressure, always keep that consistent. Instead, add a couple of grams more coffee. You're aiming for 30-40ml in 25 seconds.
Even if you decide to eventually upgrade your grinder again (as many of have done), the Virtuoso will serve you many years as a drip/press/Aeropress, etc grinder too.
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 474 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Wed Aug 8, 2012, 12:23am Subject: Re: My first grinder: Frustrated and Confused with my Baratza
My main concern is that I might have damaged the burrs or that I calibrated it incorrectly, as now the hopper only rotates from 40-25 and will not turn past that. I had hoped I would get a greater range of stops even when setting the screw to the "fine" window.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,609 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Wed Aug 8, 2012, 12:52am Subject: Re: My first grinder: Frustrated and Confused with my Baratza
I'm sorry I have to tell you that the Virtuoso, though being a good grinder for other brewing methods, is by far not the best for espresso, having far too few settings (i.e. 40 supposed to cover all grinds from espresso to French press), resulting in steps that are too wide. Therefore it's sometimes impossible to dial in the grinder correctly, because you are stuck in between two steps for proper extraction. You can only try to compensate by changing your dose accordingly, which can have an effect on taste, of course.
You should have gotten the Preciso!
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
hankua Senior Member Joined: 29 Aug 2009 Posts: 204 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Salvatore One Black Grinder: Pharos,Rossi RR45OD, Lido,... Drip: CCD Roaster: Yang-Chia 800n
Posted Wed Aug 8, 2012, 6:30am Subject: Re: My first grinder: Frustrated and Confused with my Baratza
I would try to the return the grinder for the reasons you stated "will not grind for espresso"'. You could do an exchange, get the Encore, and use the extra money to snag a beat-up espresso shop grinder. Looks like several different options to explore.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,696 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed Aug 8, 2012, 7:52am Subject: Re: My first grinder: Frustrated and Confused with my Baratza
NobbyR Said:
I'm sorry I have to tell you that the Virtuoso, though being a good grinder for other brewing methods, is by far not the best for espresso, having far too few settings (i.e. 40 supposed to cover all grinds from espresso to French press), resulting in steps that are too wide. Therefore it's sometimes impossible to dial in the grinder correctly, because you are stuck in between two steps for proper extraction. You can only try to compensate by changing your dose accordingly, which can have an effect on taste, of course.
I think the sales person was right about telling you to get a better grinder in the line than the Encore, but you should have been told that for espresso you should get a Preciso or Vario (if you're getting a Baratza grinder).
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 474 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Wed Aug 8, 2012, 11:30am Subject: Re: My first grinder: Frustrated and Confused with my Baratza
So what exactly is the difference between the Encore and the Virtuoso in the first place? And can any of you tell me if I've even done the calibration properly or if I've messed up the grinder? Right now, spending more money is not an option. I budgeted for the Encore, was upsold to the Virtuoso and am stinging from it a little. If it's just because the ticks are too far apart, one can easily remove the little ratchet to make it stepless, for what that's worth.
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 474 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Wed Aug 8, 2012, 11:53am Subject: Re: My first grinder: Frustrated and Confused with my Baratza
Well, score 1 for Baratza customer service. I was told to bring my grinder to their HQ today and they would be happy to look at it to make sure it's perfect. While I'm not in the market for a more expensive grinder yet, Baratza is still looking really good as far as building brand loyalty.
Markarian Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2012 Posts: 474 Location: Seattle Area Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Modded Nuova Simonelli Oscar Grinder: Vario-W, Mazzer Super Jolly Drip: Moka, Aeropress, Melitta 102 Roaster: Wear-Ever Popcorn Pumper
Posted Wed Aug 8, 2012, 7:40pm Subject: Re: My first grinder: Frustrated and Confused with my Baratza
So I got back from Baratza a few hours ago. I am impressed beyond all words with their level of friendliness and customer service. It turns out my grinder was indeed reassembled by yours truly incorrectly and wasn't properly set up to grind espresso. Within a matter of seconds, both technicians had it down to its bolts and worked with me to calibrate and shim it to exactly what I wanted (Turkish and Espresso). The owner even offered to pull shots with it on his La Marzocco. My visit to Baratza was a terrific experience and now the grinder is working great and grinds from talcum dust to a passable French press.
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