DCWildcat Senior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Posts: 8 Location: Washington DC Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Dec 12, 2012, 1:34pm Subject: Baratza Preciso vs. Rancilio Rocky
I am leaning towards purchasing a Rancilio Silvia (as posted in the Espresso Machines forum) and I was all set to pair it up with a Rocky. But it seems like several members are not Rocky fans.. also, a few coffee vendors that I like (Heart Roasters, Ceremony Coffee, Intelligensia) either carry only the Preciso or flat out recommend it (in my price point).
So, please help me choose between the Rocky and Preciso
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,722 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Wed Dec 12, 2012, 2:14pm Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso vs. Rancilio Rocky
well, simple answer is get the Preciso
Now, I've owned a Rocky, but I have not owned a Preciso (that ought to tell you something right there). However, I have owned an old Solis Maestro and a Solis 166 (*$$). Having been on here and read all of the other opinions over the past year and a half, I can tell you I am very confident that the Preciso addresses all of the issues I had with the Rocky (basically comes down to ability to micro-adjust the grind fineness). Baratza has amazing customer support. In fact, I've been on a lengthy email exchange with one of their guys while refurbishing the old 166 I own. If you choose to buy a refurb Preciso off their site, they offer a one year warranty on all of their refurbished grinders.
Nothing wrong with a Silvia, except that -- new -- it's overpriced for what you get. But it's a rock-solid, tried-and-true machine with above average resale value.
The Rocky, OTOH, is an outmoded, outdated, stepped grinder that has been surpassed both in quality and cost by others.
Posted Wed Dec 12, 2012, 4:39pm Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso vs. Rancilio Rocky
Based on what I have read here, I would not get the Preciso. Give it another year or 2 to see if the problems are cleared up. It hardly has what I would call a 'proven track record'.
Bob_M Senior Member Joined: 30 Oct 2007 Posts: 71 Location: Ripon, California
Posted Wed Dec 12, 2012, 5:30pm Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso vs. Rancilio Rocky
I agree about not getting a Preciso. Too many problems. All their wonderful customer service will do is waste your valuable time. Save up your $$ and get a Baratza Vario.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,679 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 7:50am Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso vs. Rancilio Rocky
Vario then seriously reconsider the Sylvia. As said by Jason, it is a solid machine with good resale valve but and it is a BIG BUT, new it is overpriced in the market, an equal machine can be had for about half of the cost of a new Sylvia and for only a little more money than a Sylvia, you can move to entry level HX machines and a whole new level over the SBDU starter machines. YMMV!
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
DCWildcat Senior Member Joined: 22 Oct 2012 Posts: 8 Location: Washington DC Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 8:14am Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso vs. Rancilio Rocky
Thanks guys but please realize I am a novice. Honestly, I don't even know what HX and SBDU mean.. I have always had a Super Automatic (Delonghi Magnifica) and I have never drawn a shot on my own. I am looking for entry-level machines (total budget of $1K) that could help me learn espresso techniques.
I am a little surprised about the comments on the Silvia.. so far, it had seemed like a solid, safe bet and a good bang for the buck. Perhaps I should look at refurbished machines?
It is pretty clear that the $150 difference between the Preciso and Vario is a good buy.. but will I be able to take advantage of the benefits with my basic knowledge?
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,722 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 9:23am Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso vs. Rancilio Rocky
My initial response to your inquiry simply answered the question you posed. However, seeing you're open to other suggestions, I would say you will definitely be able to take advantage of the superior grind quality of the Vario over the Preciso, and yeah, I agree it's definitely worth the price difference. Will you actually notice this difference...well, that's another issue. Certainly, if you were to go down the road I went down, you would, but do you really want to spend the time and money on inferior gear? (My road consisted of a subpar Solis Maestro grinder, followed by a Rocky...close to Preciso grind quality, but not as adjustable...then eventually a Macap M4...considered by many, but not all, to give similar grind quality to Vario). You have the benefit of coming here for advice, so you can start out where I am now - if you can afford it.
Silvia is a solidly built good machine. Its main problem is it's overpriced 1) for what you get and 2) compared to the competition. You should read "How to Buy an Espresso Machine (click the Guides and How Tos tab on the green bar above) before you commit to any machine. It'll explain to you the differences between SBDU (single boiler dual use), HX (heat exchange), and DB (double boiler). Then you'll be able to pose more educated questions and get better help from the users here.
As has been pointed out already, you get the most bang for your buck on the grinder, not the machine. The machine just pumps water through the puck, and all you need is something capable of doing that with a steady pressure of around 8-9 bar. There's more to it (thermal stability, recovery time, temp control, etc), but if you think of it that way, it'll help you understand the greater importance of the grinder.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,679 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 9:44am Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso vs. Rancilio Rocky
Hello again, A lot of the threads that advise Sylvia (and there are a lot of them) are older, when she WAS the best bang for your buck. She is still a solid machine but time and the market moved on and now, new, she is over priced for the performance of the machine.
Please read our FAQ on how to buy an espresso machine (there is info on grinders too as they are MORE important than the machine)
You really need to understand basic terms and information if you are to know what you are buying and if it will meet your needs as well as feel good about the purchase and not only rely on us. We LOVE to spend your money, don't get me wrong but please get some basic understanding of this whole process and hobby to get the most from the information we can give you.
OH, BTW. $1K will buy you a very solid basic setup that will last for years, new. Used, you can get at least half again better setup, but at the same risk that anyone has when they buy anything used. We can guide you here too to some solid gear. A used Oscar and a Mazzer Super Jolly grinder will likely be all the equipment you would ever want, even for parties in your home, such a setup is able to keep groups of 30 people happy (I have done that with this gear) yet it is not so large of a setup that you need feel bad about only making one drink a day.
Used Oscars start at about $500 and SJs in good shape go $350 and up. Let us know what you feel like you want to do AFTER you have some more understanding of the equipment and the differences between them.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
CMIN Senior Member Joined: 14 Jun 2012 Posts: 504 Location: South FL Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:57am Subject: Re: Baratza Preciso vs. Rancilio Rocky
I have a replacement Preciso but that was more my fault, busted the ring and few pieces when I accidently pulled it apart forgetting about the micro knob once that has to be taken off first lol. Otherwise, awesome grinder for the money, acts basically step-less, great grinding quality etc. Also I single dose and the Preciso is awesome for that with little grind retention.
And yeh as to the Silvia, it's just out of date and pricey new and same for the Rocky, plenty of other machines that just outperform it and with better features. I.E my CC1 has built in full PID control (that right there is a night and day difference in taste and quick easy adjustment, vs trying to annoyingly temp surf like crazy on a Silvia not equipped with PID) and has a thermoblock for steaming and fast switching back to boiler for brewing that makes the Silvia painfully slow to use in comparison if making a couple milk drinks and waiting for the Silvia boiler to cool down etc. You can add a PID to the Silvia but then your encroaching into h/x territory and some other machines like the Silvano that are just flat out better, or if not minding used you can get a killer machine. You may be able to find a used PID equipped Silvia though for a good deal either on here, or Ebay etc as their always popping up.
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