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Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
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ECM
Senior Member
ECM
Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 476
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Mazzer Robour E
Vac Pot: French Press
Drip: no
Roaster: Fresh Roast+8,  i-roast and...
Posted Sat Dec 29, 2012, 7:17pm
Subject: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
 

Hello everyone:

I currently use a Mazzer mini and Giotto P.  I am seriously considering upgrading to a conical grinder as I am looking to experience more complex flavors in the cup.

I have been doing a lot of reading on forms including the Titan Project and I have narrowed down my choice between two contenders:

Mazzer Robur OR Compak K10 Fresh – no docser

I admit, I feel a huge loyalty toward the Mazzer brand for its obvious following but more importantly, for its ability to grind my coffee flawlessly for the past nine years.  Clearly their grinders are amazingly constructed with top notch materials.  I also realize that the K10 is $500.00 cheaper then the Mazzer but the Mazzer has a larger bur set.  

For me however, it really comes down to 2 things:
- taste in the cup?
- which grinder will provide a cleaner countertop?


If money were not the final deciding factor which grinder would you prefer to use and why?  

One other question: Those using the Compak K10 ... have you experienced a lot  more clumping with a docerless option then using a docer?  If so, how do you deal with it?



Thanks,

Rob
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ggcadc
Senior Member
ggcadc
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 147
Location: San Diego, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: QM Alexia
Grinder: Mazzer mini E, Virtuoso,...
Vac Pot: Yama 3 cup
Drip: All of them
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sat Dec 29, 2012, 7:42pm
Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
 

awesome situation to be in, going from good to better. I'd personally go for the robur e, doesnt look odd, like the k10, and also it's in the mazzer family. I really think that's reason enough.

BTW, as far as conical vs flat burr, the WBC in 2011 used a mahlkonig K30, which has 65mm flat burrs. The profiles I tasted from the contestants after they presented were similar to what I was getting at the time with a conical hand grinder (hand grinding for espresso is a pain). So I went to a conical virtuoso to try and replicate the flavor. it was more complex than my rocky, but I attribute that to it's high RPM motor and small burr set. I think that a well designed flat bur (like mazzer makes) will produce a great complex cup, though not as bright as a conical of the same size.

and now im ruined because i started watching chriscoffee.com video for the K10 fresh.... though overall I dont find the idea of a menu system for a grinder anywhere near justifiable, it's kinda neat.

MAZZER MAZZER MAZZER!
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ECM
Senior Member
ECM
Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 476
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Mazzer Robour E
Vac Pot: French Press
Drip: no
Roaster: Fresh Roast+8,  i-roast and...
Posted Sat Dec 29, 2012, 8:10pm
Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
 

You know the Robur E is a conical grinder.
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CoffeeToolsAppJon
Senior Member
CoffeeToolsAppJon
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 516
Location: Tujunga, CA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Strada@work, BDB@home
Grinder: Robur, kony, touch, etc
Drip: v60, wave
Roaster: heart, coava, phil &...
Posted Sat Dec 29, 2012, 9:35pm
Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
 

id go Kony E its a conical like the Robur E but its a bit smaller burr set. Its goes at a slower RPM and its also conical. It will grin about 19g in about 8 seconds, the roburs can do 19g in about 3.5.

I have used the k-30, the compak touch and the robur E, and kony E. I work at a cafe, i make a few hundred shots a day 6 days a week.

at home, i use a Kony with a doser then i use a darkroom timer (gralab 505) to control the amount of ground coffee.
enjoy.
Jon

 
=
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.coffeeToolsApp.com
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ECM
Senior Member
ECM
Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 476
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Mazzer Robour E
Vac Pot: French Press
Drip: no
Roaster: Fresh Roast+8,  i-roast and...
Posted Sun Dec 30, 2012, 8:14am
Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
 

Thanks Jon for your reply.  It's a tough call.  I'm wondering how the Compak K10 holds up against the Kony E?  The one thing I'm trying to avoid is buying a grinder with less power to only want to upgrade again down the road to something better.  This is why I'm thinking of picking up the Rubour.

If the grinder is the most important determinant of cup quality then why not buy the best once and be done with it.      

Thoughts?
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CoffeeToolsAppJon
Senior Member
CoffeeToolsAppJon
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 516
Location: Tujunga, CA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Strada@work, BDB@home
Grinder: Robur, kony, touch, etc
Drip: v60, wave
Roaster: heart, coava, phil &...
Posted Sun Dec 30, 2012, 2:42pm
Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
 

id still go kony E the robur is faster but i feel like slower is better. I like the way the kony sounds, you can hear it shaving the beans. It a bit fluffier.

The best grinder is always the fastest one.

for me:

conical vs flat?  conical wins.

high RPM vs low RPM ? low RPM wins

go with kony E it will be the last grinder you buy.

Jon

 
=
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.coffeeToolsApp.com
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ECM
Senior Member
ECM
Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 476
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano 2B
Grinder: Mazzer Robour E
Vac Pot: French Press
Drip: no
Roaster: Fresh Roast+8,  i-roast and...
Posted Sun Dec 30, 2012, 6:14pm
Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
 

Thanks for your thoughts.  

The funny thing is it turns out the the Compak K10 has a gear reduction system that allows it to spin a lower RPM which as you know, reduces heat transfer.  

But I think you are totally right..... it's going to be Robour for me all the way.  Having owned a Mini for the past 9 years I am very happy with the grinder.  It has never ever given me any problems.

Thanks Man.

If anyone else would like to throw their thoughts out to me that would be fine too.  


Rob
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JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,383
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:31pm
Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
 

Presented in the FWIW Dept.:

ECM Said:

I am seriously considering upgrading to a conical grinder as I am looking to experience more complex flavors in the cup.

Posted December 29, 2012 link

Rob, I think you're operating on a faulty premise.  Conicals produce different cups than flats, but not necessarily better or more complex cups.  Conicals produce "brighter" cups, like a stereo speaker emphasizing the higher notes, versus flats and their emphasis on the "bass" notes.  

Now, I have not had someone lug a Robur-E over to my house, nor have I taken my Mahlkönig K30 Vario over to someone else's house to compare with their Robur . . . but I have had the same beans on both grinders -- both yielded great cups, merely different . . .

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,864
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sun Dec 30, 2012, 10:48pm
Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
 

ECM Said:

Thanks Jon for your reply.  It's a tough call.  I'm wondering how the Compak K10 holds up against the Kony E?  The one thing I'm trying to avoid is buying a grinder with less power to only want to upgrade again down the road to something better.  This is why I'm thinking of picking up the Rubour.

If the grinder is the most important determinant of cup quality then why not buy the best once and be done with it.      

Thoughts?

Posted December 30, 2012 link

Power will NEVER be an issue with the bigger Mazzer grinders, SJ on up.
Remember that conical burr grinders are designed to run at slower rpm. The added advantage is less "pop-corning" of the beans, especially for those who single dose (dose only enough for one shot)
IMO, regarding the different character between MOST flat burr v conical burr, there can be a taste profile difference. However, my experience has been that the Robur (not the "E") just makes great coffee period, not necessarily brighter. it just does a great job in cafe use.
It is HUGE. The Kony is certainly smaller, but not dainty! LOL

Jon is a professional. Why not give the Kony a try. You can always exchange for something else should you be less than satisfied.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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CoffeeToolsAppJon
Senior Member
CoffeeToolsAppJon
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 516
Location: Tujunga, CA
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Strada@work, BDB@home
Grinder: Robur, kony, touch, etc
Drip: v60, wave
Roaster: heart, coava, phil &...
Posted Mon Dec 31, 2012, 9:07am
Subject: Re: Mazzer Mini Upgrade - Higher Quality Cup - Complex Flavor
 

I have used both grinders in the same room with the same bean and the same strada made by the same barista, me. I can tell you that the kony is the way to go.

If i take the same dose and use both grinder, of course they will taste different. There are also 3 other M's that can change the cup quality. Save the money, instead of a Robur, get the Kony. Then you will have $500 in your pocket.

go kony!

Jon

 
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Los Angeles, CA
http://www.coffeeToolsApp.com
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