Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Grinders - Espresso
Need to find a great grinder
Donate to Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids works with farming communities around the world, improving lives. Donate today.
www.coffeekids.org
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > Need to find a...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
Author Messages
RayTCoffeeGuy
Junior Member
RayTCoffeeGuy
Joined: 1 Jun 2014
Posts: 70
Location: For My Safety, Its Empty
Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014, 8:35am
Subject: Need to find a great grinder
 

What i need is a grinder that is,

Doserless, Flat-Burr , Gear reduction , Easy to repeat stepless and stepped settings,
Minimal friction (to avoid change of flavours),

I'm gonna get the grinder and mod it to have RPM gauge for the burr speed.

Budget:USD 500 (Unfortunately can't skimp on grinder guys)

My friend asked me why i screwed up my shots with a pour rate too fast and i knew it was too coarse.

(Aiming for: 1.5 ounces to 14 gram basket for 25-30 secs)

(Yes, The extraction ratio is not for a lungo or risretto)

 
Only true passion and expertise will make the best coffee.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
z0mbie
Senior Member
z0mbie
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 346
Location: Online
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014, 9:24am
Subject: Re: Need to find a great grinder
 

Interesting solution but I honestly don't believe a slight warming of the grounds due to friction during the grinding is going to change the taste. After all,  the grounds are brewed at 200 degrees F.    

Nevertheless if your current grinder is giving you grief for other reasons and you have 500 dollars to spend on a new one by all means go for it.  I would buy the Baratza Vario at that budget if I wanted flat burrs.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,722
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014, 12:02pm
Subject: Re: Need to find a great grinder
 

Excuse me, I do not intend to offend but it sounds like you do not know much about grinders. It seems that you took some comments from several threads, mashed them together and "made the perfect grinder" NO grinder is perfect, no machine is perfect, no .... ANYTHING is perfect.


RayTCoffeeGuy Said:

What i need is a grinder that is, Doserless,

Posted June 5, 2014 link

This is fine, it is a personal choice, doser or not does not make the grinder easier to use, have less retention or one style better than the other, it is a pure personal preference.


RayTCoffeeGuy Said:

Flat-Burr

Posted June 5, 2014 link

OK, nothing wrong here either, I also prefer a flat burr, what is the reason for this choice? For me, I like the deeper, more chocolate flavors in the shot vs the more fruit and flower notes of a conical burr grinder. Neither is better, again a personal preference.

RayTCoffeeGuy Said:

Gear reduction ,

Posted June 5, 2014 link

Why? Good grinders use high torque, low RPM motors, these are more expensive to make but they have a very long life span, I guess I could be wrong, it would not be the first time but as far as I know, only inexpensive home grinders use any reduction in RPM... YMMV.

RayTCoffeeGuy Said:

Easy to repeat stepless and stepped settings,

Posted June 5, 2014 link

So you do not want steps AND YOU DO want steps????????? Stepless is better because you can make very small adjustments but they are dedicated grinders where not much more than a small change is needed. Steps are for switching between settings quickly but they lack the fine adjustment needed for espresso.

RayTCoffeeGuy Said:

Minimal friction (to avoid change of flavours),

Posted June 5, 2014 link

This has more to do with RPM than anything else. Big commercial grinders are much lower speed than small home grinders, that is one reason they cost so much more and are bigger.

RayTCoffeeGuy Said:

I'm gonna get the grinder and mod it to have RPM gauge for the burr speed.

Posted June 5, 2014 link

UH, OK but I am at a loss for what that will get you. Grinders are not adjustable for speed. The motors are not designed for that adjustment.

RayTCoffeeGuy Said:

Budget:USD 500 (Unfortunately can't skimp on grinder guys)

Posted June 5, 2014 link

New, that really IS kind of skimping, sorry but truth is truth.
Used commercial grinders can be purchased in that price range but they will not have your list of "features" that you are looking for.

RayTCoffeeGuy Said:

My friend asked me why i screwed up my shots with a pour rate too fast and i knew it was too coarse.

(Aiming for: 1.5 ounces to 14 gram basket for 25-30 secs)

Posted June 5, 2014 link

UH, this is the oft cited "formula" for brewing a shot, or at least getting it in the ball park to start adjustments. It has NOTHING to do with a grinder, any quality espresso grinder can adjust from gushers to a choked machine, it is the fineness of the grind that alters the time of the shot, again, any quality espresso grinder will do this.

RayTCoffeeGuy Said:

(Yes, The extraction ratio is not for a lungo or risretto)

Posted June 5, 2014 link

See the above comment.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014, 12:22pm
Subject: Re: Need to find a great grinder
 

I'm so confused by this thread lol. You have a Vario, a kickass home grinder. Yet your friend wonders why your shots are screwed up and too fast?!? I mean all you'd have to do is grind tighter. There's no grinder near your price range with all those features or all in one like you want at any price I'm aware of, the Vario is smack there in that price range and is flat burred, stepped but acts step less, as far as moddng rpm the sounds like a recipe for damaged burrs/burnt motor, they operate at X speeds for a reason and their already fairly low from the Vario on up to commercial class. You already own a Vario, am I missing something?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,372
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014, 2:19pm
Subject: Re: Need to find a great grinder
 

CMIN:  Why should this thread be any different that this one???

/\/\/\/\/\

To the OP:  where to start?  You wrote that you need -- though I dare say "want" is a better choice of words -- is a grinder that is:
-- Doserless,
-- Flat-Burr
-- Gear reduction
-- Easy to repeat stepless and stepped settings,
-- Minimal friction (to avoid change of flavours),

OK, first off, the whole "doser/doserless" thing is nothing but personal preference, and that's an easy thing to obtain in your stated budget of $500.  In fact, a Baratza Vario is in fact both: you can dose directly into the portafilter, or into a container.

Secondly, you want a flat burr set.  Well, unless you increase your budget by a sizable amount, or opt for a trespade burr set, you're pretty much in "flat burr set world" with a $500 budget.  In fact, a Baratza Vario has flat burrs.

Third, you want "gear reduction."  Well, it just so happens that the Baratza Vario is a belt-driven grinder that has a relatively slow RPM compared to others of similar price (save for those hand-operated manual grinders).  

Fourth -- and this is where I'm confused -- you said you wanted to have "easy to repeat, stepless and stepped settings."  OK, but most grinders are either stepped or step less -- not both, although I suppose one could make the argument that a Baratza Vario, with its 230 "micro-steps" comes the closet to the idea of being both stepped and stepless . . . at least of any grinder I know of.

And finally, you asked about "minimal friction."  Here, too, I'm not sure what you mean.  Obviously the burrs will impact the beans, resulting in some friction and, as a result, grinding.  I think what you may be concerned about are the burrs getting hot through constant use, but -- again -- unless you're operating a café and your grinder(s) is in content use, it's never something to worry about in a normal home environment.  Nonetheless, a Baratza Vario, with its ceramic flat burrs, stays reasonably cool . . . at least in my experience.

Wait a minute:  you already have a Baratza Vario!

Well, to quote Miss Emily Latella, "Oh.  That's different then.  Never mind."

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,372
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014, 2:26pm
Subject: Re: Need to find a great grinder
 

Oh, one more thing . . .

RayTCoffeeGuy Said:

Budget:USD 500 (Unfortunately can't skimp on grinder guys)

Posted June 5, 2014 link

a) Has anyone asked you to "skimp"?
b) When asking about buying a new grinder, $450-500 is about the minimum that I recommend spending, so I'd hardly call that "skimping."

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,184
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014, 3:30pm
Subject: Re: Need to find a great grinder
 

Hi Ray,

You can't do better than a Vario for a new grinder in the $500 range.  It's not a perfect grinder but it's certainly very competent.  

The next step up in flat burrs is the commercial, Super Jolly class; but it's not much of a step up in terms of quality in the cup.  If you're looking for obvious superiority, you have to climb the ladder a rung further into the commercial, big-flat, Mazzer Major, over $1000 class.  

If your problem is equipment related at all, your grinder might need to be disassembled, cleaned, reassembled and recalibrated.  The Baratza website has all the necessary information in video form; and it's on YouTube as well.  

You have a lot of opinions but they don't seem empirically based nor even very well informed -- which makes me wonder about your actual experience.  Reading between the lines, I suspect your barista technique isn't very good and suggest you get some advice on and a lot or practice pulling shots before buying a new grinder.  

Rich
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
RayTCoffeeGuy
Junior Member
RayTCoffeeGuy
Joined: 1 Jun 2014
Posts: 70
Location: For My Safety, Its Empty
Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014, 8:43pm
Subject: Re: Need to find a great grinder
 

The vario's dead, actually i don't think i should buy an identical but, maybe something around those credentials.

Dont think i can fix the machine though, electric motor worn out on me.

Replacing an electric motor, is hard and also the speed can be too fast.

Sorry (EDIT:It was supposed to be stepped or stepless not stepped and stepless)

 
Only true passion and expertise will make the best coffee.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
RayTCoffeeGuy
Junior Member
RayTCoffeeGuy
Joined: 1 Jun 2014
Posts: 70
Location: For My Safety, Its Empty
Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014, 8:45pm
Subject: Re: Need to find a great grinder
 

Thanks guys, looking at my choices.
Get another Vario, or step into the higher class of grinders.

 
Only true passion and expertise will make the best coffee.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
RayTCoffeeGuy
Junior Member
RayTCoffeeGuy
Joined: 1 Jun 2014
Posts: 70
Location: For My Safety, Its Empty
Posted Thu Jun 5, 2014, 8:52pm
Subject: Re: Need to find a great grinder
 

And also, That grind for the shot back there was from a hand burr mill.

My friend said that will grind fine enough (Bout:400 microns or so)

Yes, His was a Zassenhaus , Don't know if that works but definately not accustomed to it though.

Kinda too coarse.

(RIP Miss Vario)

 
Only true passion and expertise will make the best coffee.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > Need to find a...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Stefano's Espresso Care
Repair - Parts - Sales
Factory Authorized &
Trained Technician
www.espressocare.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.39083814621)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+