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Mythos for anything other than espresso?
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Discussions > Espresso > Grinders -... > Mythos for...  
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Mmags
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Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 4
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jun 16, 2014, 2:49pm
Subject: Mythos for anything other than espresso?
 

Hello everyone.  I have lurked this site for a while. I thought it was time to actually start asking questions and contributing to conversation.

My roommate purchased a Simonelli Mythos off of ebay for incredibly cheap. The electronics board isn't functioning, so we're going to have to purchase a new one from Simonelli for $450. We didn't realize this when it was purchased. The machine powers on, though.
It's going to be used in a commercial cafe. Not for espresso, though. So, I was wondering it anyone had experience using this grinder. Right now, the option is to pay $450 for a new electronics board or put that money towards a different grinder that would be versatile- manual pours, french press, syphon... etc.

Thanks a lot,

Matthew
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Angman
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Angman
Joined: 8 Apr 2012
Posts: 239
Location: Vancouver BC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Strega, MCal, Cimbali M20L
Grinder: K10 Fresh, HG One 83mm,...
Vac Pot: Nope
Drip: Technivorm, Hario Woodneck,...
Roaster: Hottop 8828P
Posted Mon Jun 16, 2014, 3:07pm
Subject: Re: Mythos for anything other than espresso?
 

Any idea of condition of the Burrs?  The Mythos is really meant for Espresso so if you factor in the new board and possibly new burrs you might be in the hole for $5-600.  If you're using it for anything outside of espresso why don't you consider a used Bunn, Ditting, Mahlkonig or any bulk grinder meant for brewing.  Might be better off selling the Mythos for parts if you purchased it cheap.
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boar_d_laze
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,257
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Mon Jun 16, 2014, 4:31pm
Subject: Re: Mythos for anything other than espresso?
 

I second Andrew's recommendation of a bulk grinder; and in particular a Bunnzilla.  I.e., a Bunn "G" series with the substitution of (very slightly modified) Ditting 803/804 burrs for the stock Bunn burrs.  

Unlike the Mythos, it's not hopper fed, but "single dose by weight," which is actually more convenient for brew and (of course) bulk. Because retention is near zero, changing beans from grind to grind is also easy.  The life expectancy of the Ditting burr set is nominally 15,000 lbs.  

While not as well packaged, a Bunnzilla has the same levels of "in the cup," convenience, and "use" qualities as a Mahlkonig Guatemala.  Total cost for a Bunnzilla is in the neighborhood of $800 (the burr set is around $430) if you start with a used Bunn G1/2/or 3; or about $1100 if you begin with a new G1. For shop pour-over, vac, press and cupping purposes there's probably nothing better at any price.  

Worth mentioning also that a stock Bunn G is a damn good grinder, and probably better for your purposes than the Mythos.  You can usually find used ones in good shape in the $300 - $350 range; while replacement, stock burrs go for around $200.  Other bulk grinder brands worth considering in the used market are Ditting, Fetco, Grindmaster and Mahlkonig.  

But Bunnzilla is the way to roll.        

Rich
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Mmags
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Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 4
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jun 16, 2014, 4:44pm
Subject: Re: Mythos for anything other than espresso?
 

Thanks for the responses so far! This is all great information. I'll do research into a bunzilla and some of the other grinders mentioned. I have seen them all used at various cafe's in and around Boston, though I don't have any experience with them.

The burrs are in really good condition. I'll talk with my roommate and we'll come up with a good solution.

Regards,
Matthew
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boar_d_laze
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Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,257
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Mon Jun 16, 2014, 4:55pm
Subject: Re: Mythos for anything other than espresso?
 

As probably the only source for Bunnzilla information on CG, I'll be happy to fill in whatever information I can for you. There are more users at Home Barista; including a source for Ditting burr sets, already modified as necessary to fit them to the Bunn as a drop-in replacement for the stock burrs.

If you find anyone running a Bunnzilla in Boston, let us know.  

Rich
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Angman
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Angman
Joined: 8 Apr 2012
Posts: 239
Location: Vancouver BC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Strega, MCal, Cimbali M20L
Grinder: K10 Fresh, HG One 83mm,...
Vac Pot: Nope
Drip: Technivorm, Hario Woodneck,...
Roaster: Hottop 8828P
Posted Wed Jun 18, 2014, 1:36am
Subject: Re: Mythos for anything other than espresso?
 

I just picked up my Bunn G1 for my Bunzilla project today.  I must say that even with the original Bunn burrs the grind is very good.  If i had to choose between a cheaper BREW grinder i would choose a stock Bunn with good burrs over a Mythos any day.  If you have the extra cash, buy the Ditting burrs afterwards and you're set.  

You can almost certainly buy a used Bunn for less than the cost of that $450 Mythos board.
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Bostonbuzz
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Joined: 30 Apr 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Boston
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Pharos
Posted Wed Jun 18, 2014, 7:55pm
Subject: Re: Mythos for anything other than espresso?
 

Hmmmmm. Well, if you're trying to get rid of that Mythos in Cambridge... I happen to live there. If you're trying to fix it and safe $450, I'm sure you can figure out how to make a new board on your own, or at least install a switch that goes "on/off". For non-espresso, I would not recommend it, however. Unless, of course, you can fit some mahlkonig burrs of the same diameter. You would likely have to re machine the burr carrier...

(I'm not active on CG, but I am on HB)
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Mmags
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Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 4
Location: Cambridge, MA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:02am
Subject: Re: Mythos for anything other than espresso?
 

Once again, thanks for the responses to my question. After discussing this with my roommate, we're going to go with a bunzilla but keep the mythos on the off chance we'll want to use it for something down the road.

I'll check out HB and pick some brains there also. However, I would love to use you as a resource, Rich. Where would you recommend purchasing the Bunn? I read that any in the G series would work. Is there a particular model that you would recommend? I think there is the G1, G2, and G3?
I also want to make this grinder stepless. I heave read that it was a pretty easy thing to do.

Thanks for your help.

Matthew
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Angman
Senior Member
Angman
Joined: 8 Apr 2012
Posts: 239
Location: Vancouver BC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Strega, MCal, Cimbali M20L
Grinder: K10 Fresh, HG One 83mm,...
Vac Pot: Nope
Drip: Technivorm, Hario Woodneck,...
Roaster: Hottop 8828P
Posted Thu Jun 19, 2014, 11:22am
Subject: Re: Mythos for anything other than espresso?
 

Matt you can follow my post over at HB as I just started this project.  

As for which model G any of them will work.  The G1 is for 1 lb and the 3 is for 3lb Hopper so they just get taller in size.  Find the cheapest thats in good condition and you can probably use it for awhile before even needing the new Ditting Burrs.  Usually there are more G3's around.  The "stepless" Trifecta plate gives more adjustability but so far for pour over, french press etc the regular plate is fine for me.  If you did want to convert its a 5 minute $30-$40 swap including the new decal.
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,257
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Thu Jun 19, 2014, 1:45pm
Subject: Re: Mythos for anything other than espresso?
 

I'm going to repeat some of the stuff Andrew said, and add some new stuff and some different analysis as well.  My vision of what's appropriate and/or desirable is more uncompromising than his.  That doesn't mean one of us is right and the other wrong, just that we have different perspectives.    

There are three G series Bunn grinders, G1, 2, and 3.  As Andrew said, the different numerical designations refer to their respective, approximate hopper capacity in pounds.  Otherwise, the machines are identical.  Since width and length footprints are the same, the only physical difference between the different sizes is height.

All current production G series grinders use the same, 30 position detent plate which was introduced in the "Trifecta" grinder (the Trifecta is a G2 with a delivery system for the Trifecta handle instead of the standard, bag-filler).  Older G series grinders had a 9 position plate.  "Better" than another grinder is not the same as, "the best we can do," and the 9 position plate does not allow an adequate range of adjustment to find best grind sizes for critical, commercial use.
 
If you buy a used your grinder used and it has one of the older plates, you'll want to replace it with the newer style.  I forget exactly how much they cost; about $15, I think; and replacement is very simple.  

Another difference between the G series and the Trifecta grinder is the decal behind the dial.  The G decal has pictographic representations of various brew methods, while the Trifecta decal is numeric.  Personally, I think the G decal is charming but the Trifecta decal is a little easier to use.  My wife prefers the Trifecta decal's looks.  The cost of the decal is about $10.  If you're buying a used grinder which will be on display in a commercial setting, you'll probably want to replace the decal with new one of either style just to refresh the appearance.  

The stock Bunn burrs are "pressed," while the Ditting 803/804 burrs are "machined."  In practice that means the Dittings cut more and crush less than the Bunns.  The Bunns certainly do a good job, but the difference in the cup between them and the Dittings is substantial even when the Bunn burrs haven't seen much wear; and if they have, the difference is even more striking.  

Once you've made the decision to go Bunnzilla for quality in the cup reasons --  especially in a commercial situation where consistency and quality are paramount -- there's no reason to delay replacing the Bunns, no matter what condition they're in.    

The Ditting 803/804 burrs are nearly a straight, drop-in replacement.  However "are nearly" is not quite the same thing as "are." You need to press-fit a spacer around the Ditting stationary burr (the back burr in the Bunn) to fully cover a hole in the Bunn's back plate and prevent fines and dust from migrating to the back of the grinder during use.  

The Ditting burrs are available directly from Ditting for $360.  It cost me $50 to have a spacer fabricated and press fit by a local machinist; for a total cost of $410, not including a bunch of hours getting references to find the right guy, then chasing him down and another week waiting for him to come back from vacation.  

Prices for machining vary depending on where you live and who you know.  I know there's someone on H-B selling new Ditting burr sets for (IIRC) $430, already fitted with the right sized aluminum spacer on the appropriate burr.  IMO, unless you already know someone who'll do the job for you cheaply it's worth paying the $430 to avoid the anxiety or possibly doing the wrong thing, as well as all the running around.    

There's usually a fairly constant trickle of G series grinders coming on to the used market in any metropolitan area the size of Boston.  Prices for grinders in good condition range fro a little to over $200 (if you're very lucky) to over $400, with mid $300s more typical than not.  Obviously the used market is strictly catch as catch can, and there's always some luck involved.  

The Ditting burrs require something like 50-60lbs of break-in before coffee ground between them develops the signature, "juiciness;" and about 100lbs before completely setting down.  In addition to roasting and grinding sweepings just for break in, I ran a fair amount of uncooked, white rice to save money on break-in media which would only be thrown away after grinding.  (You should not run uncooked rice in an espresso grinder, but no problem -- at a fairly coarse setting, anyway -- for the Bunnzilla.)

It was worth it to me to just buy a new grinder to get the model (G1) I wanted in the condition I wanted without having to deal with shipping or schlepping, a complete tear-down and cleaning, and the risk that something expensive and complicated would need replacement.  I paid just over $700, including shipping.  

The total cost of my project was $1000 including everything (I moved the unused, Bunn burrs on for $150).  Had I been willing to accept some delays, invest a little more time and trouble, and settle for something less than we considered ideal, the project could have been completed for $800, or even a couple of bucks less. The extra two bills to do it the way I did it was money well spent as far as I'm concerned.  

Hope this helps,
Rich
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