Rosstafari Senior Member Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 6 Location: Austin Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Work - Old La Marzocco, Home... Grinder: Work - La Marzocco Swift,... Vac Pot: Not yet Drip: Left it in North Carolina Roaster: Intelligentsia
Posted Wed May 2, 2007, 2:09pm Subject: #@%^ latte art frustrations...
While I don't want to toss yet another thread in here of somebody asking for help on latte art...
...I am. I've been working at it for weeks now without a whole lot of progress. I know that pictures or a video would help, so I'll try to get one up in the next day or two, but for now, any advice would be so, so, SO welcome. Here's what I'm doing so far:
Using a small (~14oz), straight sided, cold, clean pitcher with cold whole milk.
Steaming (properly, as far as I can tell) until the volume increases about 25%, then sticking the wand in deep to let it finish off at around 155 or so.
Pounding down any small bubbles, swirling it around -- looks like I've got good microfoam here, since it's got that "white chrome" thing going on. In the meantime, the shot is running... however, our machine is out-of-whack and overextracting shots like crazy (coming out at about 8 seconds... I know, awful, but the owner has ignored my requests to get it repaired until recently), so maybe that's making a difference?
Starting a pour, slowly, in the middle of the cup. At about halfway full, doing a gentle, metronomic shake back and forth, with the pitcher still resting lightly on the cup's edge. Here's where the problems seem to start -- I can't get anything to fan out, really. Just seems to go in and disappear.
I suspect there's something wrong with how I'm starting my pour, because everything looks a little too white -- like I'm getting too much of the foam rising to the top initially, preventing any sort of design to unfold. Drinking what I've made, though, the consistency seems to be pretty good -- not flat and too liquidy, like a Big Green latte, not too foamy like a cappucino, and not a distinctly formed liquid and foam layer. Hey, at least it tastes good.
Any advice? I'd love to find another barista in town to show me the ropes, but down in San Antonio, coffee culture is really wanting... even at the better places, people give me a strange look when I ask if they'll do a rosetta pour for me.
Jasonian Senior Member Joined: 8 Aug 2005 Posts: 3,816 Location: Lubbock, TX Expertise: Professional
Posted Wed May 2, 2007, 3:41pm Subject: Re: #@%^ latte art frustrations...
I gave a little workshop on milk frothing and art back in November at Ruta Maya in San Antonio. I'm not sure how much the baristi there have worked at it, but they seemed pretty eager to learn as much as they can. You might have some luck there.
Other than that, you're right.. San Antonio doesn't have a whole lot going for it in the way of coffee. You might ask Aaron at www.browncoffeeco.com if he knows of anywhere trying to pour art.
You might also ask at www.tx-coffee.com to see if anyone in San antonio comes out of the woodwork to respond.
In regards to your 8 second shots, that doesn't sound like a machine malfuction as much as too coarse of a grind. That also sounds UNDER extracted.. not over.
In regards to the foam and how it affects your art, a simple picture would do a whole lot to illustrate what you mean.
Rosstafari Senior Member Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 6 Location: Austin Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Work - Old La Marzocco, Home... Grinder: Work - La Marzocco Swift,... Vac Pot: Not yet Drip: Left it in North Carolina Roaster: Intelligentsia
Posted Wed May 2, 2007, 5:45pm Subject: Re: #@%^ latte art frustrations...
Ruta Maya's one of the few I haven't checked out -- need to do that. They've got one of the best reps in town, so that sounds like the best place to go short of driving up to Austin... I'll check Brown and the TX blog too, thanks.
Funny you say that about the grind and underextraction -- I thought the same thing. But the tech guy at La Marzocco (or their distributor, rather) and I played around with the grind over the phone for a while without any improvement, and he insisted that it was an overextraction problem. Said he suspected a low boiler temperature, among other things... we'll see what the repair guy says. The cleaning and maintenance at our shop is abysmally bad, so it could be any number of things.
Be patient. If you don't have a tutor this can take months.....
Rosstafari Said:
Using a small (~14oz), straight sided, cold, clean pitcher with cold whole milk. Steaming (properly, as far as I can tell) until the volume increases about 25%, then sticking the wand in deep to let it finish off at around 155 or so.
Rosstafari Senior Member Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 6 Location: Austin Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Work - Old La Marzocco, Home... Grinder: Work - La Marzocco Swift,... Vac Pot: Not yet Drip: Left it in North Carolina Roaster: Intelligentsia
Posted Thu May 3, 2007, 1:21pm Subject: Re: #@%^ latte art frustrations...
All right, brought a camera in today and took a shot. I didn't realize until later that the video quality leaves something to be desired -- it's hard to make out the finer details, and it makes it look like there was a big wad of sea foam floating in my milk during part of it, which wasn't the case. But it should at least give some idea of where I'm at. Check it over at YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ntx5DNrLnU
Also been checking some of the past threads. Jon, you recommended a pretty good guide from Home Barista that's helped out some, so thanks for that. And thanks for any advice y'all may have on what I'm doing here. If it's good, I'll name my firstborn after you.
IMO it seems like you stretched WAY too much. The milk doubled in volume......shoot for a 25% to 50% increace. Draw the air in more gradually (stretch more gently), causing the milk to continuously whirlpool. As soon as the milk is no longer cool then sinik the tip and whirlpool to texture the milk as finely as possible.
Then the pour: Imagine the milk sliding out of the pitcher and causing waves onto the fluid surface in the cup. Don't waggle from your arm, use a pendulum motion from the wrist (keep your elbow still). The waves propogate away from t he pour by themsleves. Did you check this one out? Latte art on a G3 It's inspirational to me
puchang Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2006 Posts: 13 Location: Bloomington, Indiana Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Nuova Simonelli Appia Grinder: Macap MKRX Roaster: UFO/TO
Posted Thu May 3, 2007, 7:13pm Subject: Re: #@%^ latte art frustrations...
Hi Rosstafari,
Here is a video of my pour. I still need to get used to a big boiler so the result is not as goos as a professional's pour. From watching videos and personal experiences I do find that wiggling the wrist slow would help a lot. Of course as John as pointed out overstretched milk makes a beautiful pour nearly impossible. Keep practiceing and I believe soon it will pay off.
HavokTD Senior Member Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 11 Location: manitoba Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon May 28, 2007, 12:28am Subject: Re: #@%^ latte art frustrations...
Sorry if this is the whorng place, But I've got a frothing dillemma too. I've just got my first machine, but don't have a proper frothing pitcher. Can I use by press pot bottom instead, or is that a hopless plan? any suggestions for a newbie's first trys? I'd love to be able to bull off a passable latte' art cup of my very own. Thanks a bunch.
RonTheMan Senior Member Joined: 6 Feb 2007 Posts: 119 Location: Singapore Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon May 28, 2007, 12:48am Subject: Re: #@%^ latte art frustrations...
Once you are experienced enough, you can froth latte art microfoam in almost any container. For a beginner, it would be a lot less frustrated if you just get a frothing thermometer and a pitcher to practice.
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