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La Pavoni descale with vinegar?
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Discussions > Espresso > Lever Espresso > La Pavoni...  
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victoriacoffees
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victoriacoffees
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Posted Thu Feb 6, 2014, 8:18am
Subject: Re: La Pavoni descale with vinegar?
 

Vinegar is fine but slow requires more rinsing time. We use citric acide when descaling machines in house, where we completely dissassemble parts for soaking. Parts look beautiful in just a few hours.

So far, we have not had issues with blockage on any descaled part.

 
-John
www.victoriacoffees.com
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dougiedd
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Posted Sun Feb 16, 2014, 11:52am
Subject: Re: La Pavoni descale with vinegar?
 

I notice that The Original Manual says DO NOT USE VINEGAR

I use it and it works but i imagine the seals might suffer
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insatiableOne
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Joined: 31 May 2014
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Posted Tue Jun 3, 2014, 5:18am
Subject: Re: La Pavoni descale with vinegar?
 

dougiedd Said:

I notice that The Original Manual says DO NOT USE VINEGAR

I use it and it works but i imagine the seals might suffer

Posted February 16, 2014 link

My manual for my Stradivari states to clean it out with Calcium Carbonate. By using two teaspoons dissolved fully in water, then pour into the boiler.

Alternatively, instead of using bicarbonate, prepare in a container a solution of water with a tablespoon of white vinegar and pour it into the boiler.

^^^ is what they want you to use for"commissioning". pg 33

decalcification :by using a specific softeners that can be found on sale. pg 44
( so that was real specific now wasn't it ).
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DavecUK
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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Posted Tue Jun 3, 2014, 7:12am
Subject: Re: La Pavoni descale with vinegar?
 

crazy4espresso Said:

Where small passages are blocked with Calcium Carbonate, if you use Citric acid you'll be replacing it with an insoluble Calcium Citrate, and then you're really screwed.  Vinegar is the preferred descaler in those instances. I always use an acetic acid solution when I have accessible boilers that can be easily rinsed and where I suspect there are very small passages requiring descaling.  I've never had my machines smell or taste like a salad with proper rinsing.

Posted February 3, 2014 link

Oh my god the misinformation and lack of knowledge is incredible. Citric acid is a very good descaler for espresso machines. The only improvements are made with specially buffered solutions which reduce copper leeching.
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crazy4espresso
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crazy4espresso
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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Espresso: Silvia, La Pavoni...
Grinder: Pharos
Posted Wed Jun 4, 2014, 12:09pm
Subject: Re: La Pavoni descale with vinegar?
 

DavecUK Said:

Oh my god the misinformation and lack of knowledge is incredible. Citric acid is a very good descaler for espresso machines. The only improvements are made with specially buffered solutions which reduce copper leeching.

Posted June 3, 2014 link

I guess you won't go so far as to explain why I'm wrong, probably because you have no idea what you are talking about. Calcium citrate is fairly insoluble in water, and it's not something you want in small passages (e.g pressurestat tubes). I use citric acid as well, but not in all applications.

2C6H8O7 + 3CaCO3 = Ca3(C6H5O7)2 + 3CO2 + 3H2O
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DavecUK
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Posted Wed Jun 4, 2014, 1:47pm
Subject: Re: La Pavoni descale with vinegar?
 

crazy4espresso Said:

I guess you won't go so far as to explain why I'm wrong, probably because you have no idea what you are talking about. Calcium citrate is fairly insoluble in water, and it's not something you want in small passages (e.g pressurestat tubes). I use citric acid as well, but not in all applications.

2C6H8O7 + 3CaCO3 = Ca3(C6H5O7)2 + 3CO2 + 3H2O

Posted June 4, 2014 link

I wouldn't waste my time...you carry on using what you want...when you actually understand the chemistry properly and what's going on, you will realise you don't need to worry.
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crazy4espresso
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crazy4espresso
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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Location: Toronto
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Espresso: Silvia, La Pavoni...
Grinder: Pharos
Posted Wed Jun 4, 2014, 2:11pm
Subject: Re: La Pavoni descale with vinegar?
 

DavecUK Said:

I wouldn't waste my time...you carry on using what you want...when you actually understand the chemistry properly and what's going on, you will realise you don't need to worry.

Posted June 4, 2014 link

Typical..., just typical.

This is a forum where we exchange information, and if warranted challenge information by providing EVIDENCE and engaging in intellectual scientific debates.  I can accept being wrong, but if you are going to accuse me of spreading misinformation, you better be prepared to back your claims and provide sound reasoning as to why my assertions are invalid.

So Calcium Citrate is not a problem in small passage ways in an espresso machine? PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY!!
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DanoM
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Joined: 20 Mar 2013
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Posted Wed Jun 4, 2014, 3:02pm
Subject: Re: La Pavoni descale with vinegar?
 

I use citric acid on my own La Pavoni, but I do know about the issue with citric acid and creation of insoluble compounds that can foul up the pstat & tube.

If my La Pavoni was heavily scaled I'd probably disassemble and descale in a bucket, but that's me.  At that same time I could put the pstat tube  in vinegar solution and fill the pstat with the same.  You could also leave it intact and pour only enough vinegar in to cover the bottom and descale the pstat connection that way first.  Once descaled there follow that with citric acid and you should be safe from insoluble compound creation where you can't get to it.

My La Pavoni has a clean tube, very little scale, and so I don't have any concern using citric acid in my own.  A professional descaler solution would be even better though.
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