farmroast Senior Member Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 1,417 Location: Amherst MA. Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Oly:Cremina,Maxi. MCAL... Grinder: Majors, Dienes Vac Pot: Hellem10 Drip: CCD, and more Roaster: 1kg. DreamRoast
Posted Fri Oct 21, 2011, 6:39pm Subject: Re: Cremina technique?
justymikey Said:
Excitement!!!
After having my Cremina for 3 weeks I produced not just a drinkable shot, but a decent shot. I can't say it was phenomenal but after fiddling for 3 weeks and getting worse than dirt shots I am extremely excited.
Endo, I was about to comment "and you don't open the steam wand FIRST to relieve the false pressure and get the machine up to temp?"..... and then I remembered you have the pressure relief boiler cap! I need to get one of those.
cadell Senior Member Joined: 16 Oct 2011 Posts: 5 Location: Jacksonville Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Oct 22, 2011, 10:39am Subject: Re: Cremina technique?
Hi new poster here. I intend to get a cremina and most people here have a wide variety of techniques. But, few are comPlaining about the result. is technique, assuming a threshold of competence, somewhat irrelevant with such a good machine? How many people have pulled a bad shot with a cremina, once they have experience?
Posted Sat Oct 22, 2011, 10:55am Subject: Re: Cremina technique?
@cadell as with any machine there is a learning curve. The more you are willing to "wing it" the longer it will take. What I mean by that is the more you are eyeballing your dose and temperature the longer it will take to master the machine. There is also learning curve in training your hand to perform consistent level pressure throughout the shot.
It took me almost a year to get all variables down, but once you do, it is hard to pull bad shot. I tried lot of machines from bottom to top and if you forced me to have single machine I'd choose Cremina. 8 months ago I would not have said that because I got crap out of it. Espresso that could not compare with what I was making on GS/3 but since then I learned how to use it and get most out of it and it is truly an amazing little machine.
Posted Sat Oct 22, 2011, 11:50am Subject: Re: Cremina technique?
+1 on tekomino
One of the few advices I would recommend, given I am relatively new to Cremina also, is to get the temp strip and pressure gauge from the OrphanEspresso. This will reduce greatly the temperature variable in your espresso journey, which means a lot in getting good shots. Also, as mentioned, get a weighing scale down to 0.1g and a proper tamper. The plastic tamper, even though it could barely survive you in the absence of proper tamper, it will never be helpful if you want to get good shots from Cremina. The default prerequisite, as usual, is a good fresh coffee with good grinder. Fresh coffee means it's roasted within 2 weeks, not the expiry date on the bag. So the beans in grocery store will never work. Good grinder is relative but the generally accepted here is probably a minimum Innova or Baratza Preciso. Any less would work but will definitely increase the likelihood of frustration you would have in seeking good shots.
With the proper tools (or coffee) mentioned above, I honestly think it's really hard not to get good shots from Cremina.
Posted Sat Oct 22, 2011, 4:24pm Subject: Re: Cremina technique?
Ross (cadell) welcome to the CG Forums, and especially this one featuring our wonderful Olympia Cremina.
Good advice from the above 2 members. In GENERAL, lever machines take a bit more practice, as you're not depending on the machines mechanical/electronic abilities to do the heavy lifting. It's you, your right/left arm.
With that said, whether you're pulling shots on a lever or semi auto HX pump machine, the rules are the same. fresh coffee, good water, proper temperature for the coffee being used, excellent grinder, and home barista expertise. The last comes with practice. Find a CONSISTANT preparation method and STICK to it. This means proper dosing, distribution, leveling the coffee bed with a level tamp, etc.
Yes, there's several ways to pull a lever shot, and believe me brother, I've tried them, ALL! More than one style can get you there, but I'd stress SIMPLICITY, at least in the beginning. MY gig is: Don't get to "fussy' with the coffee prep. Dose tap down a couple times, level with a REAL stainless/brass tamper that is 49.3 or 49.4mm, and have at it. Make sure you don't jerk the lever up too fast, take it slow, let it linger at the top 6-8 counts, and lower, first with a fair bit of pressure, then when the drops turn to a nice dark stream, less pressure. Practice and repetition will give you the feel.
This technique pretty much applies to ALL MANUAL lever types, not of course spring lever machines.
Bear in mind, this is MY current method. I sometimes will do a nutating tamp if my coffee is a bit dry. Also understand that the others here have found THEIR individual prep and pull methods. All are valid IF THE COFFEE TASTES GOOD!
Endo Senior Member Joined: 26 Jun 2008 Posts: 804 Location: , location, location. Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: machine is < important than... Grinder: !
Posted Sat Oct 22, 2011, 5:47pm Subject: Re: Cremina technique?
cadell Said:
Hi new poster here. I intend to get a cremina and most people here have a wide variety of techniques. But, few are comPlaining about the result. is technique, assuming a threshold of competence, somewhat irrelevant with such a good machine? How many people have pulled a bad shot with a cremina, once they have experience?
You must remember, pressure, flowrate and temperature are all under manual control during every Cremina shot. That's a LOT going on and it can be easy to lose control.
I think people who have levers bought them knowing (and even expecting) a little more variation. It makes it that much more rewarding when everything goes perfectly. Think of it like racing a vintage stick-shift race car around the track and beating that guy with his automatic, 4 wheel drive, traction control GS/37 (I mean G37 ;-)
That said, while I think its possible to make good shots with the Cremina without much experience (by simply dosing, tamping and pulling consistantly), to make truly great shots, you need to have the experience to identify what is lacking in each shot and know how to adjust for it in the next.
This is my 5th espresso machine (and 5th grinder) in the last 15 years. I know I wouldn't be making the same quality of shots if I hadn't made that investment in time.....but then again, without an experienced pallete, I may be just as happy making something slightly better than Starbucks :-)
Posted Sun Oct 23, 2011, 5:25am Subject: Re: Cremina technique?
Just want to reiterate what Rob recommended- If you have single basket on Cremina, try it!
Today I tried using the single basket with 9g Metropolis Redline with Mazzer Major(just because I like flat burr profile more). Used a low temp, a quick flush so that the head is hot enough but the temp strip is just barely showing 194F. No WDT or any fancy move- level, tap and tamp. Preinfuse for 4 seconds, pulled for about ~20 seconds(I dont really count, just aiming for a mouse-tail extraction with moderate pull strength). Bam! So sweet and full of flavours. Literally tasted like flavourful chocolate wine or something, with a very good amount of sweetness, hint of brightness in the background, strong chocolates layered with many subtle flavors that I failed to capture but thoroughly enjoyed. I can feel as if all the subtle flavours are resonating in the background of my palate. Such a heavenly experience for a short 1oz drink!
I find that single basket is also more forgiving with the distribution, probably because of the tapered bottom. With the Elektra and Cremina stock basket, I sometimes get spritzers and doughnut starts with no WDT. If I use single basket with the same techniques, I get a perfect centered mouse tail extraction. Just sharing my experience and see if this corresponds to anyone's experience.
I am using a bottomless pf just for the record. It's true that you're learning new thing every once a while with the Cremina. ;-) It will never end. Just getting better all the time
BigStormGirl Senior Member Joined: 15 Jan 2011 Posts: 122 Location: Indiana Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Olympia Cremina Grinder: Baratza Vario/Peugeot Bresil Drip: CCD
Posted Sun Oct 23, 2011, 10:34am Subject: Re: Cremina technique?
samuellaw178 Said:
Just want to reiterate what Rob recommended- If you have single basket on Cremina, try it!
Today I tried using the single basket with 9g Metropolis Redline with Mazzer Major(just because I like flat burr profile more). Used a low temp, a quick flush so that the head is hot enough but the temp strip is just barely showing 194F. No WDT or any fancy move- level, tap and tamp. Preinfuse for 4 seconds, pulled for about ~20 seconds(I dont really count, just aiming for a mouse-tail extraction with moderate pull strength). Bam! So sweet and full of flavours. Literally tasted like flavourful chocolate wine or something, with a very good amount of sweetness, hint of brightness in the background, strong chocolates layered with many subtle flavors that I failed to capture but thoroughly enjoyed. I can feel as if all the subtle flavours are resonating in the background of my palate. Such a heavenly experience for a short 1oz drink!
I find that single basket is also more forgiving with the distribution, probably because of the tapered bottom. With the Elektra and Cremina stock basket, I sometimes get spritzers and doughnut starts with no WDT. If I use single basket with the same techniques, I get a perfect centered mouse tail extraction. Just sharing my experience and see if this corresponds to anyone's experience.
I am using a bottomless pf just for the record. It's true that you're learning new thing every once a while with the Cremina. ;-) It will never end. Just getting better all the time
I just tried this and I just got one of my best shots since I got my cremina. I used Red Bird and it was great. Still not a "godshot" for me, but it really put me closer. Thanks!!
Posted Sun Oct 23, 2011, 12:36pm Subject: Re: Cremina technique?
I just wanted to underscore that once you have your temp and dose fixed and under control which is easy, it becomes very important how you prepare your puck and the pressure you put on the lever. This last point I cannot stress enough and the only way to learn this is through lot of practice.
Single baskets will be less susceptible to distribution problems because you have thiner puck there. Thiner is easier to distribute evenly and you grind much finer thus reduced problems with channeling etc. In double basket puck is thick so good distribution is crucial. I highly recommend doing WDT on double basket.
Regarding pressure on lever, you have to keep in mind that if you press so much that you are about to tip the machine you are pressing too hard. Grind coarser.
What I like to do is press about medium until I see the bottom of basket bead then I go full pressure until I extract about 10-12g of coffee. Then I start easing up on pressure to create declining pressure profile. But you have to adjust the pull depending on how puck feels under pressure, but in general I like to ease up on say second half of the shot.
Keep in mind that as you use different coffees they like different grinds. Some coarser some finer and you need to experiment and taste to see what works with batch of coffee you have in hand. I usually have starting position on my grinder and I first go with that and adjust after I taste espresso. As generic guideline if coffee is too sour grind finer, if it is too bitter grind coarser and increase dose. Also keep in mind that some coffees are simply sour, that's what they are. You can't make mango out of lemon...
So pressure you put on lever needs to be trained and once all variables are mastered is what stands between you and god shot :-)
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