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Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
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x1
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Joined: 13 Aug 2008
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Posted Sun Oct 30, 2011, 8:29pm
Subject: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

Last upgrade I will ever do time.  Need some advice.  Anyone with experience using either. I'm looking for the 2-grp. Each is a simple machine with few electronics.  I like that. Fewer things to go wrong.

As a result a '91 Olympia Cremina will be coming available in a few months.  I'll make sure this forum gets first crack.

Cheers
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
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Posts: 6,382
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
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Posted Sun Nov 6, 2011, 1:30pm
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

I have not used either, so feel free to ignore my thoughts.  That said, should you need repairs/parts, I would think the Victoria Arduino, imported (owned?) by Nuova Simonelli, would be significantly easier.  On the other hand, I have loved every shot I've ever had on a BOSCO, so how handy are you at DIY?

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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x1
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Location: x
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Nov 6, 2011, 7:05pm
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

for better or worse I have bought the two group Sorrento :)  Arrives in 45 - 60 days.

Both the Canadian Districbutor and the store in Seattle can provide parts.  i think it is something i will worry about in 5 - 10 years, at the rate I will be pulling shots  ...
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docdvm
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Joined: 15 Oct 2009
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Location: Ottawa Ontario
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Giotto, Cremina
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Posted Mon Nov 7, 2011, 9:08pm
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

Could I ask where you bought the Sorrento? I also live in Canada
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x1
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Posted Mon Nov 7, 2011, 9:41pm
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

Douglas Squarek <douglassquarek@hotmail.com> at Uptempo Coffee
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docdvm
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Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 83
Location: Ottawa Ontario
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Giotto, Cremina
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Versalab
Drip: Bunn VP-17
Roaster: HotTop
Posted Tue Nov 8, 2011, 7:33pm
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

Doug seems like a standup guy. Honest and very helpful. Certainly the Bosco is a sizable expense for a hobbyist. Likely the last machine you should need but not necessarily want. Now that espresso shot is getting ore and more expensive. Worth it?

I too would like a Bosco and will be contacting doug as soon as a few personal issues get resolved. That may be next year though. Wish I did not have to wait but it will give me time to get your feedback on the machine and the taste of your espresso.
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x1
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Posted Tue Nov 8, 2011, 9:00pm
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

Definitely. And Douglas seems like a really straight up guy!

We're renovating the kitchen dining room, and living room.  I was able to slip it in without much argument.  I am old school.  I wanted a machines as simple as possible and I love the lever! And it helps that my wife loves my coffee as much as me!


Cheers,
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beanflying
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beanflying
Joined: 6 Nov 2011
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Location: Australia
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Posted Fri Nov 11, 2011, 4:27am
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

If I was buying new and based on what I have found go the Izzo Pompei over the 2 your looking at.

The 55mm groups are a good thing in the flavour department and I am fairly sure my Fioranzato share the Arduino groups with some others.

 
Lever Junkie Izzo 3grp, Fioranzato 1grp, Z9 2grp, Cimbali and a Pavoni. 15'ish Siphons plus to much other stuff
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,382
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Fri Nov 11, 2011, 9:28am
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

beanflying Said:

The 55mm groups are a good thing in the flavour department . . .

Posted November 11, 2011 link

And how precisely would you describe the impact of a 55mm group "in the flavour department," as opposed to a 54mm group, or a 57 or 58mm group -- or even the 49mm group favored by Olympia in their Cremina lever machines?

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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beanflying
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beanflying
Joined: 6 Nov 2011
Posts: 9
Location: Australia
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: 7 of them
Grinder: 10+
Vac Pot: 15+ I think
Drip: 6 or so
Roaster: several
Posted Fri Nov 11, 2011, 6:41pm
Subject: Re: Bosco or Voctoria Arduino Athena Leva
 

Below is a modified version of something I wrote a while back elsewhere relating to PF sizes and it has only been confirmed the longer I have used smaller baskets. This pseudo slavish devotion to 58mm bears a lot more investigation to see if smaller really is better or just different but to stick to 58's because most do is not the right answer.

Best not to drag the smaller home levers (Pav, Cimbali and even the Cremina etc) into the discussion on commercial levers as they are in a whole different boat. Still very worthy of separate discussion but the OP is after a large lever.

Group design plays a large part in the lever shot quality and goes to the temperature stability is it a HX group like the new little Bezzera or say a Z9 or is it a dipper tube like the Izzo, Fioranzato or a lot of the other modern ones.

The Izzo group for example runs best to my palette at 1.05 Bar while the 1 grp Fioranzato was borderline burning the coffee at that point.  To get the shot temperature back to something acceptable I am now running back at .9-.95. Depending on the ambient temperature your operating in a heating flush is sometimes a good idea after long idle periods too. By this I mean one group is not the same as the other.

As below sweeter and better clarity is the principle difference with the smaller PF's to my taste at least. And as above I would seriously look at the Izzo (think Chris Coffee in the US carries them? )


"Domestic machines use all sorts of sizes from 45mm to 58mm
Commercial machines use 53mm to 58 mm, havn't seen a smaller one but I will no doubt be corrected  

Channelling issues smaller diameter PF's are easier to get close to level than the more open 58mm ones. So distribution and level tamps are less of a worry factor on smaller ones.

Shot Quality is a consideration, it has been mooted in some circles that smaller portafilters give a sweeter result, this is a whole can of worms and worthy of it's own thread I reckon. Della Corte and GS3's are some current examples of 53 or 55mm PF's I think and are some of the best machines in the world.

Some of the tiny diameter PF's are on 50-60's lever machines and were designed for smaller shot sizes than the generally accepted commercial volumes.

Why 58 and not 55 or 60 or ??? I suspect this "standard" goes back to the 50's or early 60's and has become a defacto standard. And I suspect some manufacturers have got into a rut of sorts rather than try new things (flame suit is on).

Apart from that I have been a happy user and owner of 51, 53 and 55mm PF's"

 
Lever Junkie Izzo 3grp, Fioranzato 1grp, Z9 2grp, Cimbali and a Pavoni. 15'ish Siphons plus to much other stuff
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