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How do I tighten a loose water tank body on La Pavoni Europiccola?

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Discussions > Espresso > Lever Espresso > How do I tighten...

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Plado
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Joined: 1 Dec 2004
Posts: 44
Location: United Kingdom county of Devon
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Krups Espresseria Automatic...
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Posted Thu Dec 29, 2011, 7:45am Subject: How do I tighten a loose water tank body on La Pavoni Europiccola?

Having just had a serious fault on my Pavoni cured by the super bunch of mechanically minded folks here, I'm tempted to ask for more help on the other lesser problem I haven't yet mentioned, namely the whole cylindrical water-tank on my Pavoni has come loose on the base. If I move the shot-pulling-lever sideways the whole tank swivels sideways left and right. I dare not move it too far because it was obviously supposed to be tight. I tried taking the base off my older broken machine to inspect the insides and see if there was any kind of way to tighten the body of the machine but I couldn't even see a big hexagon nut or any peripheral clamps - it seems to me that the new machine is just soldered or welded to the base but that can't be right. I'd be most grateful if you could describe the safest way to tighten it. I would empty the machine and unplug it - then turn it upside down on a soft surface and undo the base plate. Then somehow there should be a way to attack the joint between tank and base so I could tighten it up. Maybe there's a video on YouTube? Hope someone can advise. Thanks in advance -- Plado

SteveRhinehart
Senior Member

Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 786
Location: Syracuse, NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: 1970s La Pavoni Europiccola
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Hario Skerton
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Posted Thu Dec 29, 2011, 9:50am Subject: Re: How do I tighten a loose water tank body on La Pavoni Europiccola?

Hey Plado. As a matter of fact, the good folks at Orphan Espresso may be able to help you out here. Sounds like you've got a loose boiler flange, which you can see at about 5:00 in this Europiccola rebuild video. If the video doesn't help, see if you can sap a picture of the boiler mounting and post it here, we might be able to help you further.

Posted Thu Dec 29, 2011, 11:15am Subject: Re: How do I tighten a loose water tank body on La Pavoni Europiccola?

I will indeed go and study the vid. I may have to take a second look through it to make sure I can see what they're showing. I'll report back when I've had a good look at it. Right now I'm almost blurred vision from too much beer red wine and sherry to be able to make a reasoned inspection! Hic ! Thanks muchly for your help. Back later -- Plado

Posted Fri Dec 30, 2011, 5:18am Subject: Re: How do I tighten a loose water tank body on La Pavoni Europiccola?

Steve, thanks a million for that video link. Excellent demonstration of stripping the machine apart and putting it back together. The guy was a little difficult to hear with his mega Bass American voice, not quite as deep as Henry Kissinger but almost! It gave me the confidence to take the bottom of the Pavoni once I'd found a really rare Torx type screwdriver bit because Pavoni have secured the plastic base with a hollow Torx bolt which has a tiny centre spindle and luckily I had one that fitted in my kit of strange weird and wonderful Allen keys and Torx bits. I removed the wiring noting where each tag went and marking the connectors in color-coded ink. Then removed the boiler element and its rubber gasket o-ring. Also had to undo the brass water feed pipe using two different sized wrenches. Then when I could get at the main big ring-nut, I couldn't get a Car Oil Filter wide-jawed wrench to grip it, so I did what it recommended in the video, namely whack it with a hammer! I used a metal drift and gave it a few taps clockwise on one of the flanges on the nut-ring and managed about 1/8th of a turn tighter. That tightened it perfectly. There was a bit of rust around the seal but I wasn't going to undo it completely to sort that, as it probably has dried and sealed up quite well. The Pavoni should give me about 2 more years of use before I have to strip it down and find all the rust! So thanks again for your help. Much appreciated and problem solved. -- Plado

drgary
Senior Member

Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 122
Location: San Francisco
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Amica Coffex Lady Duchessa...
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Posted Sat Jan 7, 2012, 9:42pm Subject: Re: How do I tighten a loose water tank body on La Pavoni Europiccola?

Plado, Good follow-ups there. But I would take care of rust right away when you find it so it doesn't keep eating away at useful metal and get out of control, ruining your machine. Despite the problems you have had, these should last a long time. I just bought a machine made in the early 1990s that was well cared for and it's like new. I bought another about a year ago that had rust in the drip tray, so I scoured out the rust and used high heat RustOleum. No problems since.

Posted Sun Jan 8, 2012, 1:56am Subject: Re: How do I tighten a loose water tank body on La Pavoni Europiccola?

Very good point. I have to say though, that I have already rubbed out the first couple of rust spots that appeared on the top right corner of the drip-tray when it appeared under the plastic tray corner. I then decided to coat the whole tray area with Hammerite silver paint, fairly thickly. My first Europiccola was one with a black base but chrome body. This rotted very badly without my having noticed when cleaning. So when it rotted right out I bought the more expensive Europic with the chrome base. I had hoped it would be rust-proof thinking it was a stainless steel base or maybe brass with a plated coating or something. Chrome, I thought surely wasn't used where it gets wet and often hot wet and staying wet for some time. After all you don't use chrome where something is going to get wet and risk not being fully dried religiously - old car fenders and handlebars on bicycles used to rust if you didn't dry them down after rain, and polish them regularly. I would have thought stainless steel or true brass would be a better material for the base. Thinking I'd managed to fend off the rust on this new one by painting it (still during warranty I hasten to add) I found that the rust started coming through my silver Hammerite paint coating in a very short time just a few weeks. At that time I wasn't thinking that the water causing the rust could be underneath and I didn't have a way to open the base to take a look. It was only after I bought a set of spanner bits with the really odd type of Torx nut underneath that I was able to take the base plate off and inspect inside. I found no water or any evidence of any seeping or having got in from below. I think it simply rusted from above because the chrome coating is ridiculously thin. It seems to me the product is over-priced and manufactured down to a price. I don't personally believe it's the quality that you have been led to assume. Maybe you've just been lucky but I've had two rust out despite my efforts to prevent it. So this is now why I have bought a Gaggia and I'm going to use the Pavoni as my spare machine if and when the Gaggia packs up! The Pavoni is now dry and stored in a dry cupboard without the filler cap or frother valve left shut, so that the washer doesn't perish. Who knows, it may be un-usable the next time I get it out and fire it up. Thanks for your input. -- Plado

Posted Sat Feb 4, 2012, 5:12pm Subject: Re: How do I tighten a loose water tank body on La Pavoni Europiccola?

Sorry the rustproofing didn't work for you. I've got two Europiccolas, -/+ 2K. The - 2K is better build quality. + 2K more consistently makes better coffee. For + 2K removed rust in drip tray, treated it with something like naval jelly, I forget, it's been awhile. Then covered with high heat Rustoleum. Now I always wipe it dry. I never leave it wet. No rust has returned and it's been 1 1/2 years. YMMV. As far as build quality goes, no one has convinced me of anything about that. I think the build quality is lower and engineering is better in recent Pavonis, plastic sleeve and all that. The chrome plate could be thicker. I've heard the gold/brass plate isn't good. And I've seen a recent Pavoni being repaired where it was obvious the metal underneath the plating in the lever handle is pot metal that was badly rusting. That said, mine aren't giving me problems and the build quality of my older Pavoni is rock solid except for the design flaw that lets it swivel on its base. I hope you didn't replace it with a Gaggia Achille because unfortunately they're known for poor build quality with plastic parts too and lots of leaks.

Posted Sun Feb 5, 2012, 1:36am Subject: Re: How do I tighten a loose water tank body on La Pavoni Europiccola?

Thanks for that further bit of information. What actually most annoys me is that the makers haven't thought-through their "materials science" properly and so haven't made the most vulnerable parts proof against the finish rusting. The engineers of this world would actually call it disgraceful shortsightedness. My new Gaggia Baby Twin has a drip tray that is removable for cleaning and drying. It has a warning-float in it to remind any lazy or complacent users that it's time it was emptied. There's no way it can possibly rust because it's properly finished. The finish on that tray is what is known in the factory world as "Baked Enamel" where the paint is sprayed on and then the item is sent through an oven on conveyor belts and slowly dries to a finish that is as durable and rust-proof. This is the technique used to paint long term durable items such as precision Microscopes. It can take knocks and moist environments without suffering. The La Pavoni finish is to put it mildly cheap and rubbish. The under-tray area on my post 2K Pavoni started to show signs of the sheen going dull in one place, so suspecting the start of problems I brush painted the whole area where the plastic tray sits, with silver Hammerite. This is a thick cellulose paint that is supposed to be waterproof. Yet to my horror 3 months later a rust spot broke through this. And I cleaned the dish-tray and dried it with paper towel after every use. I've never heard of Rustoleum in the UK. Cure Rust yes, and Trustan. But these things only neutralize any existing oxidization prior to repainting or filling on things like car wings and doors. Now I'm pleased that I've been able to tighten the loose tank by clouting the large hexagon nut underneath with a drift and a hammer thanks to help received here and the video I was advised to watch. I've put a new ferrule thing in the output port that seals the pipe that draws the hot water. The machine is now in store as a spare one to bring out when I want to brew twice the number of coffees at the same time quickly for those occasions when we have 2 guests and need 4 cups without a long wait for cleaning coffee baskets or for water tanks to return to pressure etc. Waiting for the Pavoni to come back to pressure can mean that 2 of the guests have finished their coffee by the time the second 2 get their fresh cup. Sometimes I think the La Pavoni is a one cup machine for people who live on their own! Thanks again for your experiences. It's a pity they don't match mine during the last 10 years. -- Plado

hankbates
Senior Member

Joined: 2 Feb 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Barnstable, Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Professional...
Grinder: LaPavoni Jolly
Roaster: Hottop

Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012, 7:06am Subject: Re: How do I tighten a loose water tank body on La Pavoni Europiccola?

I have been working with LP lever machines for over 15 years. Virtually all of the painted or chrome bases on used machines I come across have rust issues. Brass machines have brass bases which may discolor under the lacquer but don't rust. That being said, whenever I use my LP (which has a brass base) I try to dry off the base immediately and put the plastic drip tray in rotated 90 degrees so as to not trap any moisture. Guess I am paranoid about rust, too much antique car restoration.

Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012, 8:02am Subject: Re: How do I tighten a loose water tank body on La Pavoni Europiccola?

Very patient of you to be prepared to go to that trouble to prevent it from rusting. I thought about buying the brass-base model but the price was completely over the top for something that should be rust resistant in the lower priced end of the range. Back in 1968 I bought an Atomic Breveti Robiatti Milan (Mocha Pot) Coffee maker in a coffee importer shop in North London. It cost me 11 uk pounds. In today's money that's the equivalent of about 200 pounds or $350 USA. The machine though built in Milan has made thousands of cups of coffee and cappuccino with the steam pipe. Never in that time has it needed any spare parts no gaskets; no valves; no screw caps; no basket filters; Even the Bakelite handle on the jug survived being partly melted by an over enthusiastic gas flame on a hob. It still works perfectly today some 49 years on. No rust because nothing in its manufacture is rust prone - it's aluminium. So what I'm saying here is if the Italian makers (back in 1968) were then capable of making something that doesn't rot well before its fair time then why can't they do it now? One of the best cars (to drive that is) I ever owned, was a 4-year old Alfa Romeo but before I'd owned it more than a year it had rotted out. Lancia Cars pulled out of Britain because they couldn't take the flak that was thrown their way by we Brits who used to joke that the metal used in the cars were made from melted down Battle Ships in World War II and therefore contained masses of hidden salt water!! That was funny and a little bit of a "dig" at the Italian industry. I don't mind paying large sums of money for something that does the job intended, is well designed and well made, with high build-quality and precision engineering and it's pretty obvious to me that the La Pavoni makers are not prepared put high quality engineering into something they wish to mass-produce and sell globally. For the standard the Pavoni reaches it surely doesn't warrant a price higher than a quarter of the cost they are to purchase new. I wouldn't buy another one. -- Plado

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