badmajon Senior Member Joined: 26 Apr 2012 Posts: 9 Location: Pasadena, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012, 11:59pm Subject: Great shot of espresso for less than $800?
Hello, I am wondering if it is possible to get a great shot of espresso out of a machine costing less than $800 which is the cost of the europiccola, which seems to be pretty well rated and people say it will make a great shot.
I am only interested in a great shot, not a good one, not a passable thing that gives you a caffeine hit. I mean the kind of shot that you order to go, and then as you walk down the street sipping on it you find yourself unable to take another step and have to stop to finish the espresso in order to give it its due. Yes, that happened to me, and the coffee shop that made it won the city's best espresso award a couple of years back and it was made on a Faema E61. That's a $6000 machine. I don't have $6000, but I am determined to recreate that shot at home. I'm moving soon and I will no longer be able to go to this coffee shop twice a week for my regular. Needless to say, I don't order my espresso to go anymore!
I guess my question is really two questions- will the $800 Europiccola make a shot that good and secondly is there a cheaper option? If I have to spend more, I'll save my money, no matter if its the $800 Europiccola or if I have to really wait a few years and get an E61! The point is I don't want to buy something that is merely decent, I'd rather just stick with my moka pot...
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012, 4:33am Subject: Re: Great shot of espresso for less than $800?
The Europiccola is a solid and simple machine, and is quite capable of phenomenal shots - but not without a decent grinder and fresh beans. If you're price-wary, you can try finding a used Europiccola on ebay and similar sites, as parts are fairly easy to obtain, and repairs are quite simple. There's no pump to wear out, very few electrical components, and the worst you'll usually see is corrosion around the base (avoid those unless you really want a project machine). I got mine for about $250 from ebay, and all I had to do was replace the seals - all of them - and after about a month I had an electrical short that I got repaired by an experienced espresso tech. Just be smart when purchasing, make sure the seller shows evidence of the machine working, such as asking for a dated picture exhibiting the machine's steaming ability. The heating element is one of the most expensive parts to replace, so making sure that works is a good idea.
The grinder is going to be really important for the EP though, so if you don't already have one, make room in your budget, or be prepared to spend a bit more. A Baratza Preciso or Vario would pair well, as would higher end grinders. There aren't a lot of budget grinders that would fit the bill, but you might be able to find a used Mazzer Super Jolly (again, needing some TLC) online for $300 or so.
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012, 5:26am Subject: Re: Great shot of espresso for less than $800?
badmajon Said:
Hello, I am wondering if it is possible to get a great shot of espresso out of a machine costing less than $800 which is the cost of the europiccola, which seems to be pretty well rated and people say it will make a great shot.
I am only interested in a great shot, not a good one, not a passable thing that gives you a caffeine hit. I mean the kind of shot that you order to go, and then as you walk down the street sipping on it you find yourself unable to take another step and have to stop to finish the espresso in order to give it its due. Yes, that happened to me, and the coffee shop that made it won the city's best espresso award a couple of years back and it was made on a Faema E61. That's a $6000 machine. I don't have $6000, but I am determined to recreate that shot at home. I'm moving soon and I will no longer be able to go to this coffee shop twice a week for my regular. Needless to say, I don't order my espresso to go anymore!
I guess my question is really two questions- will the $800 Europiccola make a shot that good and secondly is there a cheaper option? If I have to spend more, I'll save my money, no matter if its the $800 Europiccola or if I have to really wait a few years and get an E61! The point is I don't want to buy something that is merely decent, I'd rather just stick with my moka pot...
I think you're definitely going about this the right way. Save to get the equipment you'll want, not just equipment that will suffice. I'd save more and wait for a really great DB or HX to go for sale in the B/S/T forums for about $1000. You'll be very happy with a more convenient machine. Well, at least, I am. Manuals are pretty finnicky, have small boilers, steep learning curves and issues with temperature management. Depends on what you want to do, really. Some love using the manual levers, others - like me - would rather use my HX.
I currently have a Cremina and an HX and as much as I wanted a Cremina I don't use it and am selling it. For my morning routine, I'd rather have the convenience my HX gives me. Temp management on manual levers isn't easy. That second shot can be a very tricky thing to attain great results from. Also, I have a wife that pulls her own shots and for someone who isn't as interested in this obsession as I am, an HX/DB is manageable.
You should choose based on what you think would make you happiest with the kind of convenience you can afford. Having said that, regardless of the espresso machine you grab for around $800-$1000 if the grinder isn't up to the task, it's all for not. Grab a very cheap and used Preciso or Vario. However, you haven't mentioned what your budget is for grinders... if that $800 is a TOTAL budget you're going to have an extremely hard time recreating that shot at home. VERY HARD.
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012, 7:00pm Subject: Re: Great shot of espresso for less than $800?
It certainly is possible. Figure out if you want a lever or if you want to push a button. Don't skimp on the grinder -- but if you're willing to grind manually, you don't have to spend lots (OE Pharos). I've got a Caravel, purchased for 128EU on ebay.it, and a Pharos ($245). This setup isn't holding me back at all.
MARIOBARBA Senior Member Joined: 26 Sep 2011 Posts: 126 Location: MONTREAL CANADA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso DUO Prof TRONIC Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012, 7:13pm Subject: Re: Great shot of espresso for less than $800?
First, let me point out that an espresso should never, never, never be taken to go. The fact that someone put your city's best espresso into a paper or styrofoam cup makes me cringe.
Now if you care to recreate that taste at home you will need these things in order of importance:
1) a great grinder 2) a great source of coffee 3) a good machine 4) lots of time and patience
I have never used a manual lever so cannot comment on them other than to say that people who like them, really like them. As for semi-automatic machines, you may want to look into something with good temp control (PID), an adjustable OPV and possibly an e61 group to benefit from some pre-infusion. There are lots of options available.
If your budget really is 800$ and you need a grinder as well as an espresso machine, you may have a hard time achieving your goal of great espresso. You will however be able to make very good espresso with that budget. I know because I am and my setup cost me around that much.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Apr 30, 2012, 8:58pm Subject: Re: Great shot of espresso for less than $800?
Welcome, Fred, to CG. I agree with Steve that a used Pavoni Europicola is a great place to start, BUT . . .
Keep in mind that owning a Europicola, or even a $6,000 Faema Legend (with E61 groups), is no guarantee in and of itself to having a "great shot of espresso." It's up to you to make a great shot.
The Four M's of Espresso: 1) the Macinazione is the grinder, and with it, the correct grinding of the coffee beans; 2) the Miscela is the coffee beans/blend itself; 3) the Macchina is the espresso machine; and 4) the Mano is the skilled hand of the barista.
All four are important. Only when ALL four factors are adjusted, taken care of, and are in harmony, will a great shot of espresso be the result. That said, remember . . . Nothing is more important than the grinder.
MkOosting Senior Member Joined: 4 May 2012 Posts: 8 Location: Belleville, ON Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Sun May 6, 2012, 4:00pm Subject: Re: Great shot of espresso for less than $800?
]You can find Arrarex Caravel's on ebay international in the $150-$200 range (once you factor in shipping). They make a really good ristretto shot, are simple to use and look like a Cadillac from the 60s. I recommend them.
If you're in it for the shots, not the lattes (this machine doesn't have a steam wand or anything like that) that's definitely the way to go. Especially if you're inexperienced, a lot of people are recommending the europiccola but it's a finicky machine and tricky to get right. The Caravel is simple.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 