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Issue with the 49mm Penney bottomless filter for the Cremina
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SpaceTime
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Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 271
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 83 & 89 Cremina, 85 Coffex
Grinder: HG One, Pharos, LIDO
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Thu Feb 6, 2014, 12:55pm
Subject: Issue with the 49mm Penney bottomless filter for the Cremina
 

Hi,

I purchased the 49mm Penney bottomless filter  for my Cremina, and have been using it for a few days now.  I like it.

One thing - I realized when I bought it that it had a wire in the top that can (optionally) keep tension on the filter basket so it does not fall out when turned upside down.  And I know this wire is optional, that you can take it out if you want, it only means the filter basket will easily slide out when turned upside down.  

Here is my issue - after only about three days of use (15 shots?) I noticed a dark ring (rust?) around the top of my Elektra filter basket, and the groove that the wire rides in was fouled badly (rust?).  It took a little time in JoeGlo mixed with some CLR and scrubbing to begin to remove this scarring - and this was after three days use.  I am not sure this was a coffee ring.  I realize if it is rust, there are better ways of removing than JoeGlo, but when I started to remove it, I just assumed it was baked on coffee... then I realized it I on the OUTSIDE of the basket, and more likely rust... so added some CLR into the mix.  UPDATE::: I still have not completely removed the ring from my filter basket - getting closer, but it is still there.

I took the wire out, and under inspection, it appears it is NOT made of non-corrosive metal (like stainless) - and this might be the reason for the quick fouling, scarring on the basket, etc?

Question(s) - do any of you use that tension wire, and leave it in? If you do, do you have corrosion, fouling issues that after a couple of days you get dark rings around your filter basket, and heaving gunk in the groove?  Did I get one with a replacement / swapped out wire or something?  Or is this how the Penney was designed?

Please chime in with your experience.
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z0mbie
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z0mbie
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 349
Location: Online
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Thu Feb 6, 2014, 8:58pm
Subject: Re: Issue with the 49mm Penney bottomless filter for the Cremina
 

Very strange...

Mine has had no issues.  Wire is clean. No signs of rust or stains anywhere.  I took out the wire and it looks new. Have been using my Penney daily since I got it many months ago.

I take out the basket regularly but not after every use.  Maybe one a week.. when I do I always notice that it is clean.  Btw I've also used it with my Electra basket without issue, although I only used it a few times but stopped because I had issues with the basket.

If it helps, here's a bit more info.. the water I have used is both filtered tap water (320 tds) as well as bottled water (aquafina, ~10tds).


I am very curious what is causing your corrosion issue.
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 271
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 83 & 89 Cremina, 85 Coffex
Grinder: HG One, Pharos, LIDO
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Fri Feb 7, 2014, 6:58am
Subject: Re: Issue with the 49mm Penney bottomless filter for the Cremina
 

Your experience is enough to convince me the wire in mine is not original and a swapped out one.

My water hardness for the Cremina is 175 TDS, so that has nothing to do with it.

After three days of use - it is clear that is a wire made of corrosive metal (not stainless), and not original equipment for the Penney portafilter.

Needless to say, it is VERY disappointing that one has to pay $150 for a portafilter, and have a swapped out part that damages your equipment in there.

I will be contacting the vendor today for a replacement.  Thanks for sharing your experience to help me understand there was indeed an issuel
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uscfroadie
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uscfroadie
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Posted Fri Feb 7, 2014, 7:06am
Subject: Re: Issue with the 49mm Penney bottomless filter for the Cremina
 

Mine still looks brand new.  Also, unlike you and Scott, I have no fitment problems, either with the Penney portafilter or the Elektra 18 gram basket.  You can easily see this in the video I linked on the Cremina action video thread.

Did you buy yours new from OE?  On a side note, I never knew anyone even made the retaining clip out of anything other than stainless.
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 271
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 83 & 89 Cremina, 85 Coffex
Grinder: HG One, Pharos, LIDO
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Fri Feb 7, 2014, 7:23am
Subject: Re: Issue with the 49mm Penney bottomless filter for the Cremina
 

Merle - yes from OE - I did not want to state the vendor in case others might take that the wrong way.

I have bought a lot of stuff from OE (including both their hand grinders which I use daily)  - my most recent purchase was $350 in gear including the Penney - I am sure this was an oversight or something odd happened.

There is no question this wire is NOT stainless though.

EDIT:  Would you mind posting a pic of your clip?  The "thing" that was in mine is clearly just some cheap, thin wire - it even has bends in it and is not a formed wire for that groove.  Heck, it does not even fit!!!  It is also black from corrosion already.  Weird.

EDIT 2:  I replied to this point in the Videos on Cremina thread - but Merle - my Elektra basket from Stefanos had fitment issues with both the Cremina and Penney Portafilters.  With the Cremina, minor filing, and with the Penney, even more... it is working now, but took a minor amount of metal removal / filing
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 271
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 83 & 89 Cremina, 85 Coffex
Grinder: HG One, Pharos, LIDO
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Fri Feb 7, 2014, 8:34pm
Subject: Re: Issue with the 49mm Penney bottomless filter for the Cremina
 

Gents - one thing I am curious about - the retaining wire I received with my portafilter is magnetic.  

Is yours?
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z0mbie
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z0mbie
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 349
Location: Online
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat Feb 8, 2014, 8:59am
Subject: Re: Issue with the 49mm Penney bottomless filter for the Cremina
 

SpaceTime Said:

Gents - one thing I am curious about - the retaining wire I received with my portafilter is magnetic.  

Is yours?

Posted February 7, 2014 link

I just tested mine and a neodymium magnet sticks to it firmly, so I am confused. I thought SS was a non-magnetic metal but even the Penney PF, which is SS, was slightly attracted to the magnet.  Could it be because of the installed wire?  In any case both items have been left wet to air dry before many times without issue. Here are some photos of mine...

z0mbie: 20140207_171358_20140207172524944.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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z0mbie
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z0mbie
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 349
Location: Online
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat Feb 8, 2014, 9:09am
Subject: Re: Issue with the 49mm Penney bottomless filter for the Cremina
 

Another..

z0mbie: 20140207_171507_20140208081124968.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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z0mbie
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z0mbie
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 349
Location: Online
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat Feb 8, 2014, 9:29am
Subject: Re: Issue with the 49mm Penney bottomless filter for the Cremina
 

uscfroadie Said:

Mine still looks brand new.  Also, unlike you and Scott, I have no fitment problems, either with the Penney portafilter or the Elektra 18 gram basket.  You can easily see this in the video I linked on the Cremina action video thread.

Did you buy yours new from OE?  On a side note, I never knew anyone even made the retaining clip out of anything other than stainless.

Posted February 7, 2014 link

 

I'd like to respond to this as well...

I think the Electra baskets are perfectly usable in their original shape when the user inserts and removes the PF into the group head at an angle.  I believe Doug (of OE) had mentioned this in a post somewhere.

I have made plenty of espresso without any real issue.  But the Electra baskets are definitely wider than the stock basket and well bind in the group if you try to install the pf into the group straight up.

Here's a video I shot demonstrating this...
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SpaceTime
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Dec 2013
Posts: 271
Location: Virgo Cluster
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: 83 & 89 Cremina, 85 Coffex
Grinder: HG One, Pharos, LIDO
Drip: Freiling 33 & 44oz FP,...
Posted Sat Feb 8, 2014, 9:30am
Subject: Re: Issue with the 49mm Penney bottomless filter for the Cremina
 

Scott - Thanks for sharing - that is interesting.  Yours is clean as a whistle.  Obviously there was a mistake made on mine - in three days, my wire, groove were fouled black - and my Elektra basket STILL has  a black line - I could not get it off completely using Joeglo, then citric, then some diluted CLR.  

As far as magnetic properties of stainless - there is ferritic and non-ferritic stainless - without getting into details, some stainless IS magnetic - it depends on the mix of constituent metals used.  Many folks just think stainless is not magnetic - that is not the case.  I just wanted to know what other folks had.

One thing - for some reason OE did not want to send me a replacement wire.  Their reply "just send it back for a full refund."  Not sure why.  I want to keep the Portafilter, so I will go out later today and get a stainless wire from the hardware store and support the item myself.
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