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To old to pull?
Rocket R58 Double Boiler
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Discussions > Espresso > Lever Espresso > To old to pull?  
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Jaypavoni
Senior Member


Joined: 30 May 2014
Posts: 7
Location: usa
Expertise: Professional

Posted Fri May 30, 2014, 9:11am
Subject: To old to pull?
 

Iv had the La Pavoni Home pro pre malliunum and then the smaller ones for 30 years.

From what I can tell, the past month its been difficult to pull, my arm is getting carpel tunnel syndrome, (Perhaps not really)
But the arm is tired of pulling.

The coffee was burnt and bad.  Then it was perfect quality but week (Full head)

Iv been looking into getting the Rancilio Silvia, but I feer it wont be as good as a Puller.

Solutions.

  1.  Tune up the burr setting on my Novelli grinder that has been set at 3 for YEARRRRS.
    I do not know if the house cleaner moved the dial, we put to 5 then 4 then 2.5 then back to 3.

  2.  Get new burrs?
  3. Rancilio Silvia
  4. Rocket or any $2000 rigs.

Local I found a rather ugly $200 commercial machine untested, I know its worth $1300 when working, although I dont care to dabble into repairing machines for profit right now.
Plus its rather ugly.  Its a single group double boiler 110V and you cant use distilled water, its the kind you plumb in.

Price is not that much of a worry, but $2000 is max and I found a Rancilio Silvia with rebuild and back flush for $400.

I just know it wont be good enough

Or will it?
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boar_d_laze
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1,314
Location: Monrovia, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M21 DT/1 Junior...
Grinder: Ceado E92; "Bunnzilla"
Vac Pot: Royal Coffee Maker
Drip: Chemex + Kone; Espro Press
Roaster: USRC Sample Roaster
Posted Fri May 30, 2014, 10:28am
Subject: Re: To old to pull?
 

Hi Jay,

I strongly recommend against buying a Silvia or any other SBDU without a PID.  The Silivia in particular was never good, it was just good for the money.  Times have changed, it hasn't.  It's still not good, but no longer good for the money.    

Hybrids
If you don't care much about steaming, the Crossland CC1 and QM Silvano hybrids are good, straight-pump choices.  

HXs and DBs
After about $1300 (price of a Breville BDB) you're talking about machines where -- as long as you have decent technique -- shot quality is defined by the beans and the grinder and not by the espresso machine's limitations.  The important distinctions are in build quality, features, user-friendliness, comfort, production capacity, and things like that.  

There are lots of good choices under $2000, but no "perfects."  You'll have to set some priorities and make a few compromises.      

Nothing wrong with Rocket, but it's just one good brand among many.  

Local I found a rather ugly $200 commercial machine untested, I know its worth $1300 when working, although I dont care to dabble into repairing machines for profit right now.
Plus its rather ugly.  Its a single group double boiler 110V and you cant use distilled water, its the kind you plumb in.

Just curious.  What is it?

GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER

Tune up the burr setting on my Novelli grinder that has been set at 3 for YEARRRRS.
I do not know if the house cleaner moved the dial, we put to 5 then 4 then 2.5 then back to 3... Get new burrs?

Definitely time to clean and dial-in from scratch.  

I'm unfamiliar with Novelli grinders, and -- alarmingly -- Google is no help either.  Could be spelling.

What can you tell me about yours?  Burr size, burr geometry, doser type, wattage, stepped/stepless, things like that.  

Rich
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Jaypavoni
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Joined: 30 May 2014
Posts: 7
Location: usa
Expertise: Professional

Posted Fri May 30, 2014, 11:42am
Subject: Re: To old to pull?
 

Its a Rio single group.  It has been droped to the ground and broke a leg.
I have taken machines apart.  I just dont FEEL LIKE IT right now, not even buying and putting on ebay.

And its kind of ugly and the seller is a prick junkie.

ALthough I know its perfect for my needs and $200 comes with ALL The parts.  Some are just taken off, the bottom is off and top makes me uncomfortable that its broken.
Dont want a project right now, although half of me wants to call him up and buy it today, yet I dont!

My grinder is nuova simonelli, massive typo on other post sorry


Im tempted to say that the RIO is just to much for my needs, I dont have an army of italions, just a few.

But im guessing its going to make the best espresso of any option I listed?

Jaypavoni: 449055_4cc1cffb0d5c3aab766a2fa59bc12996.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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Jaypavoni
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Joined: 30 May 2014
Posts: 7
Location: usa
Expertise: Professional

Posted Fri May 30, 2014, 11:42am
Subject: Re: To old to pull?
 

nuova simonelli

Jaypavoni: 95846422_nuova-simonelli-mcf-espresso-coffee-grinder-ebay.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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Angman
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Angman
Joined: 8 Apr 2012
Posts: 239
Location: Vancouver BC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Strega, MCal, Cimbali M20L
Grinder: K10 Fresh, HG One 83mm,...
Vac Pot: Nope
Drip: Technivorm, Hario Woodneck,...
Roaster: Hottop 8828P
Posted Sat May 31, 2014, 12:54am
Subject: Re: To old to pull?
 

Your grinder is a a very good grinder for your needs.  However I am surprised that you have never touched the grind dial as this is very necessary depending on the age and type of beans that you use.  The grind size is probably the single most important aspect of pulling a great shot outside of fresh beans.  As for the used Rio it looks like it was certainly a used and abused commercial machine.  More often then not these are neglected in maintenance and will be fairly costly to get up and running.  Commercial machines are built differently and aren't meant to last like a home machine with little service.  They are meant to be serviced at least every 3 months if its a busy shop or 6 months for a moderate shop.  Parts can add up and if you are not handy you will have to pay for a few hours of labor as well.  If you don't like the look and size of it I would pass on the opportunity now.  Look for something thats more home friendly.  In your budget you can easily buy something decent new or very good used.  Look at some of the machines being sold on this forum as there tend to be some pretty good ones such as the La Spaziale Mini's, Alex Duetto, Rocket or Vibiemme Jr currently being sold. Forget the Sylvia as it's not  a good value any more.
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Jaypavoni
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Joined: 30 May 2014
Posts: 7
Location: usa
Expertise: Professional

Posted Sat May 31, 2014, 8:06am
Subject: Re: To old to pull?
 

thanks for all the help.

Dismantled the grinder, cleaned it but did not remove the burrs.
put back together, burnt about half pound of beans.
Has good enough espresso.

My dial is set now to 0 so is it time to get new burrs?
It wont move past that,

Limping along I guess.

will a photo help of the burrs?

4 shots a day for 7 years+ on the grinder.
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Angman
Senior Member
Angman
Joined: 8 Apr 2012
Posts: 239
Location: Vancouver BC
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Strega, MCal, Cimbali M20L
Grinder: K10 Fresh, HG One 83mm,...
Vac Pot: Nope
Drip: Technivorm, Hario Woodneck,...
Roaster: Hottop 8828P
Posted Sun Jun 1, 2014, 12:33am
Subject: Re: To old to pull?
 

Hard to tell from a picture but worth a shot...

Was the grinder bought new by you?  If anything it's most likely worth replacing the $50+ or so burrs after 7 reliable years of daily use. Most likely and cheapest cure since nothings wrong with the pavoni. Once new burrs are bought you should expect to have to adjust the grind regularly as well. This is not the Ronco appliance where you set it and forget it.
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,407
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:07am
Subject: Re: To old to pull?
 

Jay, there are any number of things wrong, and many things which are right . . . all is not lost, but my first question is:  do you really want to get rid of the Pavoni?  

Let's separate the machine issue(s) from the grinder issue(s).  They are two VERY different things.  Your problem is the grinder, but IF the Pavoni is honestly now hard to pull -- for mechanical reasons, not because of the grind itself being "off," that's one thing.  But if you are tired of (literally) pulling shots and would like a semi-automatic, that's another issue entirely.

I had the same Nuova Simonelli grinder for years, and it's perfectly fine for espresso -- BUT . . . maintenance IS required.  It certainly sounds as though you need a new set of burrs.  If -- in an ideal world -- you want to keep the Pavoni, then get a new set of burrs, go forth and be happy.

If you want a new machine, that's fine, too.  But get new burrs anyway, or a new grinder.

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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Jaypavoni
Senior Member


Joined: 30 May 2014
Posts: 7
Location: usa
Expertise: Professional

Posted Sun Jun 1, 2014, 10:13am
Subject: Re: To old to pull?
 

moved grinder to 0 and its all the way at 0.
did an A+++ perfect pull today, all 4 perfect.

Piston on Pavoni was serviced last year.
Pulled fine.

But I still have carpel tunnel syndrome that on the puller arm.

Ordered burrs.
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CoffeeRon
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Joined: 26 Apr 2009
Posts: 753
Location: Eatonville, Wa
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Lyra, Europiccola(still...
Grinder: Macap M7D, Pharos, Vario W,...
Vac Pot: Sunbeam CoffeeMaster
Drip: Melita BCM-4
Roaster: FR SR500,B-1600, SC/TO
Posted Sun Jun 1, 2014, 12:29pm
Subject: Re: To old to pull?
 

I swear sometimes my brain drives me nuts... I was just contemplating why no-one has ever automated a lever machine. No pump, still the plunger- but use a motor and gearbox- rack and pinion on the piston shaft, to drive the piston down. heck you could even pressure profile with a pressure loop-back to the motor controller to speed up and slow down the pull. Am I the only one who thinks this may actually be doable or am I just overcaffeinated?
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