JeepinGeo Senior Member Joined: 5 Dec 2007 Posts: 175 Location: Campbell, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto, Silvia Grinder: Mazzer SJ (x2), Rocky DL
Posted Mon Jun 16, 2008, 9:57pm Subject: Silvia mod: E61 Style Pre Infusion Chamber
In an email conversation I was having with EricS, I sent him some pictures of my 'through the dispersion screw - top of the puck - brew temp TC probe mod' and he sent back some words of encouragement and a couple suggestions on how to make use of the now vacant M6 screw port. He said: "Then hook up a pressure gage or a combination pressure gage and pre infusion chamber like this: http://www.siouxchief.com/Frm_MS.cfm ".
I had earlier taken a shot at manual pre infusion where I misted the puck in the sink prior to locking in and pulling the shot. At that time, I'd had Silvia about three months and it really gave me one of the best shots I ever had!
So I was very interested in further exploring pre infusion, but I had no idea what the heck Eric was trying to tell me with that link and I voiced my frustration and ignorance in a follow up e-mail. Eric calmly replied, restating what he had said, highlighting the Sioux Chief link and telling me to look up Click Here (www.google.com) which I did but still didn't get it and sent him another e-mail stating my failure to see how any of this would figure into Silvia pre infusion. Eric patiently sent back a reply again pointing to the Google link. This time I sat back, read through the patent a few times until the light went off in my head.
Stopped at Home Depot the next day during lunch break, picked up an Oatey water hammer arrester, a few pipe fittings and ordered some copper tube and compression fittings from McMaster Carr. It wasn't long after that the Silvia pre infusion chamber was installed.
Does it work to make better shots? I'm convinced it does. Not only are the shots visually more appealing (naked PF), the pressure ramp to the puck is measurably reduced. I have no doubt the addition of the water hammer arrester allows for a period of puck wetting at a reduced pressure before the full pressure of the system is reached. Very similar to the way an E61 pre infusion chamber works.
I took some times of the pressure gauge ramp up (0-9bar) pulling shots against a blind PF. Without the arrester - 2.5 seconds With a single arrester - 4.5 seconds With dual arresters - 7 seconds
Big thanks to Eric for the idea and inspiration!
Jon, are you up for another round of beta testing? :)
I found a nice, out of way place to install the arresters - in the upright frame channels. Here they are:
Posted Mon Jun 16, 2008, 11:04pm Subject: Re: Silvia mod: E61 Style Pre Infusion Chamber
George,
Oh yeah, I already did that to my Silvia months ago right around the time I installed the second boiler, saturated group, and custom Speedster-style paneling....
...just kidding, and yes, I can't wait to be beta pig for this next project.
I'd be in heaven! I would like nothing better than to be playing with tools, technology and experimentation. Eric sent an arrester to me that had the exact same Oatey part number as the ones I bought but was substantially longer than the one I bought (?). Erics arrester gave a 7 second ramp by itself while mine took two for a 7 second ramp. I stopped at HD again today and they had both long and short models - with the exact same part number. So I grabbed some more of the long ones and will try some different combinations to see what can happen to the ramp. Toss in the Vivaldi chamber Chris is getting and I'll have plenty to experiment with! :)
If you mean tasting back to back shots with and without arresters in the system, no. I've had the arresters in for a while now, and I can say for the last couple months I have not had a single shot I wanted to toss away. This may be due to my technique improving, tighter temperature control, buying better beans or a lack of being able to differentiate taste. :)
In either case I am convinced the addition of the arresters has not hurt my espresso shots. There is less visual evidence of channeling, the pours start darker and more evenly. I have a feeling pre infusion is not a bad thing.
Right now, I switch between none, one or two by unscrewing the appropriate compression fitting and capping the connection. A hydraulic switch would be cool. :)
JeepinGeo Senior Member Joined: 5 Dec 2007 Posts: 175 Location: Campbell, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Alex Duetto, Silvia Grinder: Mazzer SJ (x2), Rocky DL
Posted Wed Jun 18, 2008, 1:24pm Subject: Request to E61 owners with pre infusion chambers:
For comparison value, after starting the brew cycle I'd like to know how long in seconds it takes for brew to emerge and how long to reach your max pressure.
Please list;
Machine/model: Vibe or Rotary pump: Time (in seconds) until brew first emerges from basket (if naked PF available): Time (in seconds) until max pressure is reached: Shot characteristics (blind, double, triple, etc.):
bobvilax2000 Senior Member Joined: 15 Apr 2005 Posts: 126 Location: Cincinnati, OH Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Rotary Brewtus Grinder: Macap MXK, Rocky Drip: Swiss Gold One Cup Roaster: Behm
Posted Wed Jun 18, 2008, 1:43pm Subject: Re: Request to E61 owners with pre infusion chambers:
Machine/model: Modded Expobar Brewtus Vibe or Rotary pump: Rotary Time (in seconds) until brew first emerges from basket (if naked PF available): ~6sec Time (in seconds) until max pressure is reached: 3sec (I installed a smaller gicleur to achieve this-- It was about a second) Shot characteristics (blind, double, triple, etc.): Double
Awesome mod... So the brewpath is diverted into the hammers?
jsdp Senior Member Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 31 Location: CT Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: La Marzocco GS/3, Rancilio... Grinder: Compak K10 WBC, Rancilio...
Posted Wed Jun 18, 2008, 7:49pm Subject: Re: Silvia mod: E61 Style Pre Infusion Chamber
Wow, this is a great mod !!
I am anxious to see your progress and what you determine the best set-up to be (and simplest). I look forward to the updates and hopefully you could provide detail pics, parts and instructions for the rest of us.
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