ciaocaffe Senior Member Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 38 Location: un bar via Veneto! Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Jul 4, 2008, 6:19am Subject: 1st gen Anita - Upgrading steam & water arms & valves to 360 pivot like 2nd gen?
Ok, just thinking ahead, of possible attempting this upgrade if possible (which I highly think IS possible).
Many know that when Anita got her upgrade, a major improvement were the 360degree swivel/pivoting ball-valve based steam and water arms.
I have searched and searched the two main forums, CG and HB, also the net and only briefly seen one person asking about this.
One poster replied to their inquiry by saying surely it would be possible to do the swap out.
The original inquirer indicated they then contacted CC and they mentioned it was not possible.
But honestly, I still think it is so.
I've studied and studied dozens of photos of the Anita and other machines with the 2nd gen. desired valves (I still do not have an Anita in possession at this time, but assuming I obtain a 1st gen Anita, I will highly be desiring this upgrade; for both looks and function).
Some of the other machines I have been observing are the Vibiemme Domobar and Expobar series (especially the latter as their valves look quite similar to 2nd gen Anita's). Their have parts are also available as opposed to Anita's.
I also noticed that on quite a few 2nd gen Anita's that do have the nice valves/arms, the location where the 1st gen Anita's arms were have been plugged with 2 black plastic plugs (I will choose polished stainless round end bolts ;) therefore, I see it as more or less a relocation mod with little to no cutting, grinding, etc. most like none.
I am sure the inside, how the valves eventually attach to the boiler, are more or less the same in both machines, as they still both basically have the same parts and sizes.
Clearly the housing is the same. Distance from the housing to the boiler I would imagine is the same as well.
So I see it as a matter of getting either Expobar valve/arms parts or Vibiemme, etc. (as CC does not sell these Anita parts for some reason. Speaking of which, where DO you get parts for Anita when you need them?! I do not see that many at CC surprisingly).
Well that's what I have to offer for my take on things.
I am highly curious why this is not more popular! I am sure there are quite a bit of 1st gen Anita's out there and I am sure quite a few would want the nicer valves/arms.
So for the people out there that have an Anita, 1st or 2nd gen, and have poked around inside, what do you think?
Unless I hear some solid reasons why this might not be possible or I see for myself, I will be most likely attempting this mod assuming I get a 1st gen Anita and can get proper valves/stems at reasonable cost.
And if I am successful, looks like I may be the first to post this upgrade (based on my lack of results searching the net).
So I thought I'd throw it out there as some preparation for possibly doing this in the not-so-distant future. A thread to set in motion some brainstorming if there is some possibility of this upgrade, which I believe there is.
Posted Sat Jul 5, 2008, 9:17am Subject: Re: 1st gen Anita - Upgrading steam & water arms
I have a feeling that I'm the other poster over on HB. Yes, service did tell me that it wasn't possible. That being said, I kinda felt like that I was blown off a little bit. Having had the entire valve assembly out and apart, I don't see why it couldn't be done. I don't know how much clearance would be required inside of the machine, but it couldn't be much, especially considering that the 1st gen and 2nd gen Anitas are identical with the exception of the valve assembly. Your having spotted the plugs pretty much confirms this.
The only sticking point that I could see would be the pipe coming off of the boiler to the back of the steam valve. This is cut and bent to a length to fix the current valve assembly, which protrudes quite a bit into the case. As the housing is certainly not the same. It's an entirely different assembly. You'd probably have to get some replacement pipe and cut/bend to fit. Only issues would be sourcing the parts / tools necessary, as both ends of the pipe are on a fitting and not soldered on.
Seriously though, the real question is whether or not it's worth the time and money to source the parts and tools to replace the valve. It doesn't really add much function to the machine, the difference in appearance is negligible, and it's probably going to be expensive.
I had my conversation with CC early in my adventure with refurbing my Anita's steam valve, if I'd had the entire thing apart and done as much research into parts as I ended up doing before calling them, I'd have probably pressed them for better answers as to why it wouldn't work.
If you could get them to sell you the entire assembly, starting with the pipe, ending with the steam wand, I think that it would be the easiest way to go, but it's still going to be expensive, considering the old valve assembly (just the bare valve, no wands, knobs, anything) is $45 itself.
Posted Sat Jul 5, 2008, 9:26am Subject: Re: 1st gen Anita - Upgrading steam & water arms & valves
CC does stock many replacement parts for the Anita. I've never had a problem getting the parts I needed, except during my valve rebuild. I was actually pretty surprised that the only option presented was to replace the entire assembly, when the shaft was obviously replaceable. WIth the help of Stefano at www.espressocare.com, I was able to source the parts that I needed. A lot of these parts are shared across machines, you just need to know what part you're looking for and perhaps what dimensions you need. In Anita's case, the Isomac Tea and Venus are also good parts sources.
ciaocaffe Senior Member Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 38 Location: un bar via Veneto! Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Jul 5, 2008, 5:08pm Subject: Re: 1st gen Anita - Upgrading steam & water arms & valves to 360 pivot like 2nd
Thank you Quar! Very helpful.
So am I reading that correctly that you did the upgrade? Or are you referring to a 2nd gen you have?
Also just to re-emphasize, I am not wanting to simply change just the steam and hot-water arms.
I basically am looking into how to make a 1st gen Anita like a 2nd gen in this aspect.
Meaning, removing both the 1st gen arms and valves (ie left with 4 holes total in the housing) plugging the bottom two and retrofitting the newer type 2nd gen valves and arms in of course the top 2 sets of holes.
Once you finally get a hold of these 2nd gen type assemblies, I'm sure they would fit in the existing holes of the housing without modification (ie drilling out or closing down the housing holes), and most likely the modding would need to be internal (ie, bending-cutting pipe from the valve to the boiler and/or also possibly needing an adapter to connect the pipe to the boiler).
Well based on what I gather, the boiler fittings, 1st gen and 2nd are basically the same so my point is that there has to be a way for it to get done. Afterall, CC did it!
BTW, email just sent to CC.
I am also reasonable in my price estimates for this upgrade, so that's not a shock to me.
I looked around at Stefano's last week and in particular the schematics of other manufacturers. I did see one that might look like a go, but not indicated on the site. Probably have to call.
chriscoffee Senior Member Joined: 5 Mar 2002 Posts: 179 Location: Albany Expertise: Professional
Posted Sat Jul 5, 2008, 7:03pm Subject: Re: 1st gen Anita - Upgrading steam & water arms & valves to 360 pivot like 2nd
I have only been asked by a couple of people about making this change and I have NEVER said it was not POSSIBLE. ANYTHING is possible but at what cost both financially and time invested is the question. You can not just change the arms you have to change the entire assemble and the arms. I do not know the cost of the parts off the top of my head but if I were to guess between two complete valves and the arm assemblies I would guess over $150.00. In order to install the assembly you have to drill a new hole for the valve through the 304 stainless steel very thick front panel as well. Since we have never done this we would also not be able to provide any instructions.
I would like to clear something else up as well with regard to parts. Chris' Coffee Service is not a parts company and has never proclaimed to be one. What I mean by that is simple, there are companies who specialize in the sale of parts we are not one of them. In fact the word parts is even a PART of some of these companies names. However we do stock a tremendous amount of parts that are not listed on our web site and probably never will be. Any machines that we sell or import we have parts for, we have to, we need to supply our distributors. We get emails everyday from people looking for parts for all kinds of machines. Those emails get answered promptly, sometimes we have the parts and some times we do not. If we do not and we know where they can get them or where the best place to try would be we refer them there.
We are real brick and mortar location, 20,000 square feet, that has been in business for more than 33 years. We service 2,000 locations in a 75 mile radius of Albany NY everything from Office Coffee Service to fine dinning restaurants and cafes. In addition we are coffee roasters, selling more than 450,000 pounds of coffee a year. Lastly we work with Italian espresso machine manufacturers and design and import thousands of machines and sell them both directly to consumers as well as through our distributors.
In conclusion, we are NOT a parts company, but we do have a lot of parts and we are more than willing to sell them. If you want to know if we have a specific part you are looking for just send us an email to either service@chriscoffee.com or chris@chriscoffee.com and you will get a prompt answer.
It sounds to me that the person that started this thread does not own an Anita at this time but is looking to purchase a used one some where. That being said there is a point financially where an upgrade does not make sense. If you purchase the machine for $500.00 is it worth putting $175.00 into it to just change the steam and hot water valves? My opinion, no.
Chris Nachtrieb, Pres. Chris' Coffee Service, Inc.
ciaocaffe Senior Member Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 38 Location: un bar via Veneto! Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Jul 5, 2008, 8:29pm Subject: Re: 1st gen Anita - Upgrading steam & water arms & valves to 360 pivot like 2nd
Thanks Chris for clearing some things up.
Thanks for the email as well.
For me personally, I still think an upgrade is worth it - well, if the parts are not too expensive. If even assuming $800 for a used, nice condition 1st gen Anita! It could be quite a while again before finding 2nd gen used Anita's for sale!
And from getgo, I never wanted to just change the arms. I like the look (of the valves and where placed) and the function of the entire assembly on the 2nd gen Anita, so I was looking to go after that. Understanding most of the parts that would be involved. My main concern was how to configure the internals.
No I do not have the machine yet. But looks like the chances of me getting a 1st gen are fairly high. I was hunting for 2nd gen Anita but I missed the last four sales in the past 2 months.
BTW, I was at CC. Nice operation, nice staff, nice park. ;)
RE parts, I was just looking through your site specifically for Anita parts, as that's a machine you sell, but I didn't see most of the parts. But as you said, you don't list them all on your site. So it's more of an email/phone thing. Ok, I see.
I certainly will not be drilling precious Anita! I gather from your email that drilling a NEW hole is to better align the valve in order to pipe it to the boiler and not simply to widen the existing hole (ie, the diameter of the valve is the same as the older 1st gen valve, so the holes in the housing are the same diameter. Good.). Depending on how things look, I would be interested instead to obtain or configure myself, angled/cut piping from the valve at the housing to the boiler if that's the case.
I would still like to get a quote on valve assemblies with wands for steam and water. So I will wait for that reply email from the parts dept.
BTW, $500 for a used Anita?! I never heard of such a thing! I'd be all over that. Have you seen such a deal in the recent months or recently offered from CC? I made contact with CC requesting a used-refurb, but understandably, not many come around.
Back in the good old days (not so long ago) when Anita went for $900 new, ok $500 used would be understandable and quite right. But those were the good old days.
So I'm simply curious were you got a $500 figure.
Thanks again for adding in here. Nice to hear from the source.
Posted Sun Jul 6, 2008, 4:49am Subject: Re: 1st gen Anita - Upgrading steam & water arms & valves to 360 pivot like 2nd
Yes, thanks for adding some detail on this issue, Chris. I don't think that I'd discussed this particular route with you personally, back when I was having problems. I'd already given up the idea due to it not being worth the time and effort. Now that you've filled in the blanks, I'm glad that I did. I've never had anything but top-notch support from you guys. Thanks again!
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