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What has 2 thumbs and loves his PIDed Saeco Aroma?
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Discussions > Espresso > Espresso Mods > What has 2...  
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,014
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 9:38am
Subject: Re: What has 2 thumbs and loves his PIDed Saeco Aroma?
 

Looks good!  Post progress, it will help the next modder.  Did you understand Skene steam?

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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dshavers
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Posts: 23
Location: Alameda,CA
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Starbuck Barista
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 1:46pm
Subject: Re: What has 2 thumbs and loves his PIDed Saeco Aroma?
 

I will definitely  take some pictures, and maybe even some video. It seems super easy. I think the hardest part will be understanding how to set up the PID itself and all the parameters. I honestly haven't figured out the Skene steam setup, so I might be asking for your help on that.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,014
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 3:03pm
Subject: Re: What has 2 thumbs and loves his PIDed Saeco Aroma?
 

I looked at the TET612 manual and it looks like my Auber one.  It should be easy if I am correct on that, so ask if you need help.  You should not need autotune unless you want to take the time.  I did not.

What I did was take the 2 wires off of the brewstat and in essence connected those 2 to the SSR output.  The PID/SSR are basically replacing the brewstat.  I believe that you also disconnect the steam stat? Not really needed. If the steam bimetal clicks off, something is wrong.

Page 17 - 30 of my PID thread you can scan through it quickly and get the idea of wiring, diodes, power supply for the Skene approach in fair detail.  Again, ask if questions.

Click Here (coffeegeek.com)

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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dshavers
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Posts: 23
Location: Alameda,CA
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Starbuck Barista
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 3:58pm
Subject: Re: What has 2 thumbs and loves his PIDed Saeco Aroma?
 

Thanks for the update. I'll have do some reading up on the settings. With the PID do you mainly just choose a set point which it tries to maintain? Right now I just have a polder thermo that is sitting on the boiler, and I use that to see the boiler temp. Man does it swing around. The instructions that I have just tell me to disconnect the brew temp thermo and leave the steam alone. If you don't mind, can I send you the pdf instructions that I have so that you can see if anything raises a red flag?

I just ordered a 25a SSR with a heatsink as an extra precaution since this is going inside my machine. It seems like the 40a might have been a bit of an overkill for this small boiler.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,014
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 4:23pm
Subject: Re: What has 2 thumbs and loves his PIDed Saeco Aroma?
 

You do not need a heatsink, but it will not hurt.  I have a Gaggia Classic, all stainless.  The SSR is inside the machine and no heat sink except the machine case.  Heatsink is just another object to get in the way though it will probably just be a platform for the SSR.  They are used for plastic cases and in project boxes and similar.

The SSR amp rating is what it will tolerate load wise.  Basically you can get close to 15 amps, but much more and you pop a breaker as that is most household circuitry in US.  40. overkill just means that it will tolerate far more than you use, not that it uses or delivers more.

I looked at the online TET612 download from Lightobject as that was your source.  Same pdf I hope??

I did not realize that you were using a Polder, good move :)  The PID will also show a large swing as it goes from stable/idle and you hit brew and cold water and calories enter.  The PID algorithms cannot stop that.  The old adage that PID cannot do much for intrashot temperature.  It you have trouble falling asleep you can read Gaggia PID thread noted, or get put to sleep, where I hooked up the second alarm and can stabilize intrashot.

The other thing that helps stabilize that swing is a blip of the steam switch prior to hitting brew, again in the thread.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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dshavers
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Posts: 23
Location: Alameda,CA
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Starbuck Barista
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 4:39pm
Subject: Re: What has 2 thumbs and loves his PIDed Saeco Aroma?
 

Ok now I understand about the SSR. Well in that case, the 40a should be fine. I'll just send the other back. They are local to me so no problem there. I have a heatsink for the 40a coming as well. It should install with plenty of room in the case since I'm removing the black funnel. It will act as "extra" insurance.

I'm a complete newbie to the whole espresso hobby. I've been hooked ever since I learned how to use our machine here at work. I figured starting out on a beginner machine such as the Barista will teach me and make me more appreciative once I move up to a better machine. I got a pretty decent grinder that so far has me getting 2 oz in 27-30secs pretty consistently. It's a krups brand but will be replaced by a preciso very soon. The only other  mod i've done is the dimmer switch to get a soft pre-infuse which is working nicely.

The temp is the one thing I seem to be struggling with which is why I figured a PID would help. I've been using the styrocup method of measuring temp, and if I brew my shot right around 217 mark I can get a shot in the 200 range. One thing I have been doing also is catching the temp on the upswing by waiting till my gauge reads 217 or so, running some water through the group until the light turns off (heater kicks on), then brewing my shot as soon as the light is on again. The temp seems to keep rising a bit during the pour.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,014
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 4:46pm
Subject: Re: What has 2 thumbs and loves his PIDed Saeco Aroma?
 

It sounds like you have learned a lot, temperature surfing and the Polder.  I have not played with preinfusion as it has mixed reviews depending on the machine and how it is done.  Sounds like you are doing ok with that.  

Do you measure pressure and use the dimmer to keep the top pressure at about 9 bar?

Do you preinfuse and wait a few seconds or just ramp up?

On the PDF above, I just looked at the PID instructions, not wiring.  Did you mean a PDF for that?

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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dshavers
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Posts: 23
Location: Alameda,CA
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Starbuck Barista
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 5:29pm
Subject: Re: What has 2 thumbs and loves his PIDed Saeco Aroma?
 

I have yet to measure the actual brew pressure, but my next project is to hook up a gauge to my portafilter. Right now I just have some lines marked on my dimmer to where the water is just barely coming out. I ramp up to that for about 4 seconds and then just slowly ramp up to full pressure. Once I get my gauge on to the filter, I can accurately measure what bar I'm pouring at.

The PDF is a set of wiring and installation instructions for the barista machine. You seem to be very knowledgeable so I was wondering if you wouldn't mind looking it over to see if anything looks incorrect.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,014
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Wed Aug 21, 2013, 9:15pm
Subject: Re: What has 2 thumbs and loves his PIDed Saeco Aroma?
 

Diagram and setup look great.  I couldn't tell about the shelf where he put the SSR.  Is that metal?  It appears that he just slid it in there and it is apparently fine.  That is a good option, especially if metal top or bottom to anchor to.

I have not used a Barista so am only looking at diagrams.  Sorry I missed the shelf pocket.  I am assuming from the diagram that there is a microswitch that turns the pump on when you open the steam wand, for hot water.  That switch is then deactivated if you turn on the main steam switch.  Sound correct?

Some lamp cord is 105C rated and some not.  You should use high temperature stuff to be technically correct.  I covered supplies in my PID thread, but YMMV.

Another interesting photo set

Click Here (www.flickr.com)

I did not splice any wires, but piggybacked in so that all is removable without a trace.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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dshavers
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Posts: 23
Location: Alameda,CA
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Starbuck Barista
Posted Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:39am
Subject: Re: What has 2 thumbs and loves his PIDed Saeco Aroma?
 

The area that the SSR was placed is not metal but plastic. I personally think that's an accident waiting to happen. The area that I was planning on attaching seems to be some type of metal.  Not as thick as the case, but thick enough I think.

I'm assuming that you are correct about the microswitch. The pump does indeed turn on when I open up the steam wand, which is how I generally lower the temp if it's too high.

I believe my local home depot carries lamp wire rated up to 105c. I think I'll check some local hobby stores for some of the silicon higher temp cable just to be on the safe side.

Do you think this wire would be ok? It's rated for 200c
Click Here (www.hobbyking.com)
Click Here (www.hobbyking.com)
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